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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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urea hosts Richard Saunders and Stefan

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Richard that theme song just delights me

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every time I hear it for either for some

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unknown reason welcome to the skeptic

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zone again Stefan I love listening to

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our theme song I tell you what let's all

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hear it again now let's not oh no they

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just went to the end of the show you'll

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get a good dose of it later it's great

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to be back again so number six already

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or six for the 21st of November where

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did the time fly toos ah and it's almost

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Christmas and everything it's just this

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is the year just as a just gone by in a

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cosmic blink of an eye and the cosmic

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click and the blink of it cause you know

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so that we're in for another huge

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episode want a skeptical feast of

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skeptical goodies we've got for you

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today Kylie Sturgis our reporter in

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Western Australia caught up with dr.

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Cole cause an esky doctor Congress you

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say that again Richard just just for

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those the first people who don't know

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the guys name dr. coral hi dr. Carl you

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know who you were talking about very

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famous scientist here and i'll stop the

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car dr. card everybody knows him as dr.

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Carter top bloke he's got a new book out

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called science is golden Oh is what's

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the do you know the angle of the yellow

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we have to wait I find iron so he talks

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about the large hadron collider and

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things like that that's fun we haven't

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disappeared into a black hole yet not

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yet i don't think they haven't started

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but didn't have like a bit of a hold up

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with ya piece of the starting it's not

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something like that they forgot to

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replace the battery and i'll plug it in

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but dr. Cole tell us all about that in

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an interview and excellent a big big

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interview we've got em in our regular

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section dr. H E reports with Rachel them

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up she interviews dr. Steve novella from

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the skeptics guide to the universe Oh

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wonderful one not only is not only Steve

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also but Rachel's even more awesome I

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think so too absolutely and she does a

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great interview and they are they're

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great show to other then they're like we

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were kind of aspiring to be like really

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mad we can only aspire a nice size guide

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to the universe snapping at their heels

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look out there but that'll be great

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that's the feature of today's episode a

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great interview of diversity and of

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Steve novella then our think tank today

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hmm some of us went to the mind body

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spirit or mind-body wallet yes now what

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are you be would have had a bit of fun

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there

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fun and afterwards we went to Chinatown

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to have some dinner and talk about our

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adventures at the skeptics the think

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tank for the thing to think jacket is

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that mind-body wallet and experience and

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a half oh you're all your shark was just

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line up you just get reiki dude it's

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it's just you know the Kundalini just

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kind of uncoils and recoils in horror

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it's just amazing I could not prevent of

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myself Stefan for those of you don't

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know this is like every six months here

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and said you have a new age fair far

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four days have basically open your

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wallets and repeat after me help

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yourself yes help you help though so

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it's it's awesome that that's an amazing

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would last time I went there they had a

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they had a Walkman that you put on and

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you blast yourself with music and that

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will cure deafness it was amazing create

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stiffness yeah well I cranked up some of

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some hardcore death metal India I was it

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was fantastic didn't do in fact some of

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our listeners may remember seeing you do

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that on the old the tank vodka ah that

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was a lot of fun but but this time you

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had another great tour of the whole yeah

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and a few people recognize me which was

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quite did they oh because I've been on

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your little expert on the on the TV

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recently in Australia and a few people

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looked at me said Mr genetic you like

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that you know that surprise I let you in

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so was there anything uh really kind of

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different this year's are just the same

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old stuff and someone can really new

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like some phenomenal new metaphysical

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treat me if they all say that every year

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oh it's the same old I don't rehash and

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given a slightly different label and

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away we go again yeah well speaking away

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we go I think we should get stuck

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straight into it why don't we get into

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the show Steph what a great idea skipped

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dr. carl kruger Netsky is best known as

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an Australian ambassador for science and

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science communication is the Julia

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Sumner mellow fellow at the University

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of Sydney and holds degrees in

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mathematics biomedical engineering

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medicine and surgery and he has also

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studied some astrophysics computer

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science and philosophy he began his

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media career in the 1980s with his radio

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show great moments in science and has

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since contributed via radio print

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podcasts and even TV shows to our

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understanding of science he even won an

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ignoble prize in 2002 for his study into

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bellybutton fluff dr. Cole is now the

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author of 27 books that investigate

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science facts and science myths designed

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for all ages his most recent book is

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called science is golden I caught up

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with dr. Karl as he was doing his

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australia-wide tour for the book science

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is golden and he had a lot to say about

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his short-lived political career for

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climate change coalition religion the

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Large Hadron Collider the return of the

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TV show sleek geeks for 2009 and he even

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had some advice for budding science

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communicators and here i am at one of

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the many book signings that dr. karl is

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doing for his new book science is golden

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and I must admit as soon as I heard that

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it was out I ran out and grabbed a copy

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and one of the things that struck me is

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that once again you were getting into

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skepticism you mentioned the wonderful

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link le in you're born in regards to

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light as a feather stiff as a board I

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admired in Kelly's work I love her book

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she does a wonderful wonderful job of

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writing she's really inspiring and I

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like the way that she actually goes out

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and does the demos in public and that's

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a really hard thing to do be it up for

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dr. Lynn I say it was one of the things

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that was featured in sleek geeks going

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out and actually doing demos and you

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tackled some of the skeptical issues out

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there like fire walking for example will

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we ever have another sweet gig show out

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there do you think and we're negotiating

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with the ABC right now and we should

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have a happy ending shortly we've got to

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do it in the

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power of two double o nine because I'm

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going down the inducting in a couple of

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in about a month and then in middle to

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double 09 I'm going on the religious

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pilgrimage walk and we'll probably come

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back able to survive on photosynthesis

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surrounded by an ethereal green glow and

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no longer needing to eat food things

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more religious enlightenment so it has

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to be done between the Antarctica before

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the religious pilgrimage in Spain the El

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Camino del Santiago pilgrim warmer that

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is incredible I know that on a earlier

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skeptic ality interview with Mike McCray

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you mentioned the division between

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religion faith and science and how the

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two of them can co-exist together in

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your mind in fact I recall that you

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mentioned Lori peak of the University of

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Sydney as being a man who has religious

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faith and yet works in science is this

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perhaps one of your ways of tackling

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this and demonstrating that the two of

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them are separate or do you have another

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message in regards to this investigation

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in my case I could be wrong though I see

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religion and science is being separate

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unlinked orthogonal in no way related in

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the same way that wearing red shirts and

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a like of curries are completely

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unrelated and for the life of me in the

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United States I cannot see why is such a

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high percentage of the population see a

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conflict between evolution and the rest

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of their normal religious belief because

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there's so many people who don't have

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any problems at all with evolution why

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they picked on this obscure topic wasn't

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they pick on electrochemistry or so if

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you want to pick on something as a bit

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counterintuitive and weird go for

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quantum physics pick on that one rather

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than being

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than poor old evolution oh there we go

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we just had a massive rush of people who

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came over and bought dozens of books

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mostly women I noticed and I imagined

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the audience has quite a broad range but

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there seems to be a lot of mums getting

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the books for kids and you mentioned

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yourself just talking about the books to

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a few of the buyers that you have a sort

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of an age range recommendation and yet

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they're applicable to all ages in many

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ways only in most cases my books would

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be suitable for an eight a smart

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eight-year-old or an average

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ten-year-old and all the way up until

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they drop dead and I guess that's pretty

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useful considering that you tackle so

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many recent topics in this new books

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such as the Large Hadron Collider for

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example and that's one of the things

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that people have a lot of concern about

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a lot of interesting but we might not

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know much about how did you get such

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complex topics down into such easy

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bite-sized pieces each story takes me 20

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hours to write so I have to turn to our

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right he's off Pete on topic and I spend

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a total of twenty hours gathering

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together on average fifty thousand words

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of material reading it on a computer

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screen mostly from peer-reviewed sources

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and also books I then read it having had

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a quick scan on a computer screen and I

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print all off and then make a pile about

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two centimeters thick then I read it

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underlying everything once then already

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gained and then summarize it and then

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finally

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I was all loaded in my brain I sit down

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the computer and start writing and

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referring back to it and from that I

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write the original 500 word story and

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then later I'll sit in my brain and

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expand up to a 700 word story and then

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finally I bring up to about 1,200 was

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always trying to keep it as short and

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succinct as possible and with the

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portion of failed with the Large Hadron

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Collider that one expanded to 10,000

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words they chopped it back to about

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eight I couldn't help because it's just

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I mean if you talk about the structure

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of matter it is possible there are some

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things you cannot deal with in 500 words

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I guess in many ways that's

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demonstrating a sort of respect besides

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because some things are immensely

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complicated and to be able to break it

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down is is a big big challenge when you

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decide to mention it well when are we

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going to V they say look now summarize

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this into 15 seconds and my answer to

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that is suppose you've been to a doctor

270
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and you've been diagnosed with the

271
00:10:10,429 --> 00:10:08,160
cancer or something do you want 15

272
00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:10,439
seconds or do you want more yeah I guess

273
00:10:14,150 --> 00:10:11,970
that little challenge that you mentioned

274
00:10:16,970 --> 00:10:14,160
there about Margaret Thatcher collecting

275
00:10:18,650 --> 00:10:16,980
people being a one-page winner for

276
00:10:21,319 --> 00:10:18,660
explaining what particular topic was it

277
00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:21,329
that was for the Higgs boson yes so when

278
00:10:26,689 --> 00:10:25,170
matter was created it had no mess so

279
00:10:28,670 --> 00:10:26,699
there's a big bang everything's too hot

280
00:10:31,759 --> 00:10:28,680
stuff kills downturns in the matter

281
00:10:33,829 --> 00:10:31,769
matter had no mass but as it moved

282
00:10:35,780 --> 00:10:33,839
through the Higgs field so goes the

283
00:10:37,490 --> 00:10:35,790
current theory it picked up mass

284
00:10:39,290 --> 00:10:37,500
different amounts of mass depending what

285
00:10:41,660 --> 00:10:39,300
sort of particle is the Higgs party the

286
00:10:44,660 --> 00:10:41,670
Higgs field itself is quite different

287
00:10:47,090 --> 00:10:44,670
from gravity electromagnetic electric

288
00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:47,100
fields in the sense that it has the same

289
00:10:50,509 --> 00:10:48,930
value everywhere through the universe I

290
00:10:53,660 --> 00:10:50,519
find the whole thing very exciting

291
00:10:58,160 --> 00:10:53,670
because if we can understand the mass

292
00:10:59,629 --> 00:10:58,170
then we can actually remove mass so to

293
00:11:01,340 --> 00:10:59,639
get the space is twenty thousand dollars

294
00:11:03,530 --> 00:11:01,350
per kilogram if you get something like a

295
00:11:06,590 --> 00:11:03,540
supertanker and removers mass you get

296
00:11:07,020 --> 00:11:06,600
into space very cheaply and then if it

297
00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:07,030
has

298
00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:09,250
you can get the speed of light and get

299
00:11:12,990 --> 00:11:11,170
off the nearest stars and it's very

300
00:11:15,810 --> 00:11:13,000
exciting because right now we've just

301
00:11:20,060 --> 00:11:15,820
discovered we've made it just now the

302
00:11:24,810 --> 00:11:20,070
first actual photographs of three stars

303
00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:24,820
around a nother sorry first photograph

304
00:11:29,670 --> 00:11:27,490
of three planets around another star and

305
00:11:31,740 --> 00:11:29,680
our technology is advancing to the stage

306
00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:31,750
that we've discovered 300 planets around

307
00:11:36,540 --> 00:11:34,330
other stars in about four years we'll

308
00:11:38,730 --> 00:11:36,550
get to the stage of finding earth-sized

309
00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:38,740
planets the moment smalls we go for is

310
00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:40,810
about five or seven times the size and

311
00:11:44,430 --> 00:11:42,850
then another four years after that say

312
00:11:46,890 --> 00:11:44,440
eight years from now we'll be able to

313
00:11:52,830 --> 00:11:46,900
discover earthside earth-sized planets

314
00:11:54,570 --> 00:11:52,840
in the habitable zone around stars but

315
00:11:57,530 --> 00:11:54,580
what no way of getting there without

316
00:12:00,180 --> 00:11:57,540
current technology and I'm hoping that

317
00:12:02,190 --> 00:12:00,190
being able to manipulate mass will get

318
00:12:04,380 --> 00:12:02,200
us to the nearest stars and even the

319
00:12:05,850 --> 00:12:04,390
more distant ones speaking of gathering

320
00:12:07,290 --> 00:12:05,860
mass we have more fans around Yousaf

321
00:12:11,850 --> 00:12:07,300
defensible have another break here we go

322
00:12:17,020 --> 00:12:13,810
I'm

323
00:12:18,910 --> 00:12:17,030
well this has just been non-stop people

324
00:12:20,410 --> 00:12:18,920
coming past and signing of just an

325
00:12:22,780 --> 00:12:20,420
observation I noticed that many of them

326
00:12:24,490 --> 00:12:22,790
were women but we were primarily buying

327
00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:24,500
it for husbands or their children I

328
00:12:27,700 --> 00:12:26,090
guess sort of pointing out that science

329
00:12:29,980 --> 00:12:27,710
communication is sort of starting at

330
00:12:32,050 --> 00:12:29,990
home I liked the point that one lady

331
00:12:33,730 --> 00:12:32,060
made about how listening to your show on

332
00:12:36,370 --> 00:12:33,740
the radio prompted a conversation

333
00:12:38,680 --> 00:12:36,380
between herself and her son and how now

334
00:12:40,510 --> 00:12:38,690
she felt more in control certainly in

335
00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:40,520
terms of communicating some of the ideas

336
00:12:44,980 --> 00:12:43,010
because of how you have supported her I

337
00:12:46,630 --> 00:12:44,990
guess by doing that sort of program and

338
00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:46,640
how now she's got a book which says your

339
00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:49,010
mom is always right signed by you well I

340
00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:50,930
did try to make the kid show respect for

341
00:12:58,380 --> 00:12:55,970
their moms and I see my role as sticking

342
00:13:01,360 --> 00:12:58,390
to the facts and ignoring opinions and

343
00:13:03,790 --> 00:13:01,370
the under all that if that's how I do

344
00:13:06,010 --> 00:13:03,800
what I do and the philosophy behind what

345
00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:06,020
I do is to try to liberate people from

346
00:13:12,070 --> 00:13:09,370
what holds them back and in general lies

347
00:13:14,350 --> 00:13:12,080
may occasionally help you get through

348
00:13:15,580 --> 00:13:14,360
life better but in the vast majority of

349
00:13:18,460 --> 00:13:15,590
cases he better off sticking to the

350
00:13:20,700 --> 00:13:18,470
truth I don't know this is much of a

351
00:13:23,290 --> 00:13:20,710
segue but we recently had the u.s.

352
00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:23,300
elections and I know that Obama has now

353
00:13:27,970 --> 00:13:27,050
become the president over there and one

354
00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:27,980
of the things that people have been

355
00:13:32,470 --> 00:13:29,810
saying is that he seems to be a very Pro

356
00:13:34,540 --> 00:13:32,480
science president and I know that your

357
00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:34,550
own efforts in politics included the

358
00:13:39,010 --> 00:13:35,930
climate change coalition now you're

359
00:13:40,570 --> 00:13:39,020
giggling funny how is it funny well I've

360
00:13:42,070 --> 00:13:40,580
got fewer votes in the barking mad

361
00:13:44,380 --> 00:13:42,080
shooters party but slightly more than

362
00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:44,390
the barking mad fish's body so at forty

363
00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:46,970
thousand votes I now know my position in

364
00:13:51,610 --> 00:13:48,410
federal politics which is totally

365
00:13:53,650 --> 00:13:51,620
irrelevant oh but still ways we need

366
00:13:55,690 --> 00:13:53,660
people who are for truth in politics I

367
00:13:58,030 --> 00:13:55,700
must have neat um would you consider

368
00:14:00,370 --> 00:13:58,040
running again perhaps one of these days

369
00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:00,380
it's not impossible that it depends upon

370
00:14:07,420 --> 00:14:05,810
the circumstances but you don't really

371
00:14:10,449 --> 00:14:07,430
know the results of what you do you read

372
00:14:13,420 --> 00:14:10,459
Richard Nixon's autobiography no no

373
00:14:16,269 --> 00:14:13,430
which particular well in his

374
00:14:19,930 --> 00:14:16,279
autobiography he describes how the war

375
00:14:22,650 --> 00:14:19,940
in Vietnam is going badly and as far as

376
00:14:24,879 --> 00:14:22,660
he's concerned he has made the decision

377
00:14:26,740 --> 00:14:24,889
which automatically will happen because

378
00:14:29,259 --> 00:14:26,750
he's the commander in chief in front of

379
00:14:31,090 --> 00:14:29,269
the forces of America he has made the

380
00:14:35,879 --> 00:14:31,100
decision to drop nuclear weapons on

381
00:14:38,170 --> 00:14:35,889
North Vietnam and then there's a big

382
00:14:42,100 --> 00:14:38,180
absolutely enormous peace demonstration

383
00:14:45,579 --> 00:14:42,110
in New York and everybody for this

384
00:14:47,379 --> 00:14:45,589
demonstration goes home sad because they

385
00:14:50,530 --> 00:14:47,389
think nothing happened knowing change

386
00:14:53,499 --> 00:14:50,540
but he saw that peace demonstration he

387
00:14:55,389 --> 00:14:53,509
was so moved by it that he decided that

388
00:14:58,509 --> 00:14:55,399
he would not drop nuclear weapons on

389
00:14:59,980 --> 00:14:58,519
Vietnam so in the same way with me

390
00:15:01,150 --> 00:14:59,990
standing for politics a lot of people

391
00:15:02,980 --> 00:15:01,160
doing what they do with you doing what

392
00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:02,990
you're doing you don't really know at

393
00:15:07,420 --> 00:15:05,930
the time what effects you have but if

394
00:15:09,430 --> 00:15:07,430
you try to stick to the truth avoid

395
00:15:11,290 --> 00:15:09,440
opinions you're probably doing something

396
00:15:14,230 --> 00:15:11,300
you can spec withstand the test of time

397
00:15:16,300 --> 00:15:14,240
that you to do so would you have any

398
00:15:17,889 --> 00:15:16,310
advice for new science communicators out

399
00:15:19,780 --> 00:15:17,899
there you've mentioned in the past how

400
00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:19,790
new media such as this podcast the

401
00:15:24,370 --> 00:15:22,730
skeptic zone is a part of that how does

402
00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:24,380
one get started should we keep on

403
00:15:28,809 --> 00:15:27,290
battling as it were ok advice number one

404
00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:28,819
never had sex with anybody has more

405
00:15:33,879 --> 00:15:31,130
problems than you do this is great but

406
00:15:37,389 --> 00:15:33,889
you pay for it number to avoid opinions

407
00:15:38,980 --> 00:15:37,399
stick to the facts number three it's

408
00:15:43,809 --> 00:15:38,990
amazing how lucky you get if you work

409
00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:43,819
hard number for inspiration doesn't come

410
00:15:48,590 --> 00:15:45,930
out anyway you just sort of have to keep

411
00:15:53,470 --> 00:15:48,600
so that's saying that you get it could

412
00:15:59,720 --> 00:15:56,990
never play cards with anybody called doc

413
00:16:01,519 --> 00:15:59,730
okay you'll lose yeah I've learned that

414
00:16:04,300 --> 00:16:01,529
in Las Vegas with magicians actually oh

415
00:16:07,790 --> 00:16:04,310
yes they put another device number five

416
00:16:08,990 --> 00:16:07,800
don't play cards seriously with people

417
00:16:11,389 --> 00:16:09,000
who are magicians you lose every time

418
00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:11,399
yeah cool I remember to tell that to

419
00:16:31,660 --> 00:16:13,170
james randi next time i see like a

420
00:16:35,750 --> 00:16:34,009
well I've come here today to the new

421
00:16:37,850 --> 00:16:35,760
town festival here in Sydney it's a

422
00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:37,860
giant sort of community festival spread

423
00:16:42,139 --> 00:16:40,170
over acres and acres of parkland with

424
00:16:43,910 --> 00:16:42,149
hundreds of stalls and people selling

425
00:16:45,889 --> 00:16:43,920
all sorts of things and thousands of

426
00:16:48,199 --> 00:16:45,899
people milling around and I've bumped

427
00:16:49,759 --> 00:16:48,209
into Ian Bryce from the Australian

428
00:16:51,829 --> 00:16:49,769
skeptics and the secular party hello

429
00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:51,839
here good morning Richard good morning

430
00:16:56,509 --> 00:16:53,850
now can you tell this is a little bit

431
00:16:59,180 --> 00:16:56,519
about what you're doing here today yes

432
00:17:01,009 --> 00:16:59,190
here we have a stands combined effort by

433
00:17:03,110 --> 00:17:01,019
the secular party of australia the

434
00:17:06,230 --> 00:17:03,120
political arm and the sydney atheists

435
00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:06,240
which is a bunch of young people very

436
00:17:09,980 --> 00:17:07,770
active on the internet and selling

437
00:17:12,470 --> 00:17:09,990
t-shirts and giving out bags of lollies

438
00:17:14,390 --> 00:17:12,480
to people who come to visit our standing

439
00:17:15,799 --> 00:17:14,400
having a great time you've got a good

440
00:17:18,829 --> 00:17:15,809
spot here I see it's right near one of

441
00:17:21,679 --> 00:17:18,839
the many entrances here and right on the

442
00:17:23,150 --> 00:17:21,689
table is it a picture was a picture what

443
00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:23,160
I'm talking about it's the Pope it's the

444
00:17:27,650 --> 00:17:25,530
Pope himself well an effigy at least yes

445
00:17:29,539 --> 00:17:27,660
indeed a mannequin yes he used to be

446
00:17:31,130 --> 00:17:29,549
addressed Danny but now he is dressed up

447
00:17:33,530 --> 00:17:31,140
like the Pope and he's got his mitre hat

448
00:17:35,539 --> 00:17:33,540
and he's got his gold telephone which is

449
00:17:37,190 --> 00:17:35,549
linked to a gold antenna on the roof and

450
00:17:40,549 --> 00:17:37,200
he's talking to his invisible friend in

451
00:17:41,780 --> 00:17:40,559
the sky and the people who come by have

452
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:41,790
the opportunity of photographing

453
00:17:46,430 --> 00:17:44,490
themselves first standing beside pipo

454
00:17:47,630 --> 00:17:46,440
which doesn't happen every day doesn't

455
00:17:49,310 --> 00:17:47,640
happen every day have you had many

456
00:17:51,110 --> 00:17:49,320
people coming up asking questions in

457
00:17:53,740 --> 00:17:51,120
groups there suddenly there's a constant

458
00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:53,750
strain of inquiries a lot of people are

459
00:17:59,869 --> 00:17:56,850
only know how to join one of the groups

460
00:18:01,939 --> 00:17:59,879
and some people are supporters joy

461
00:18:04,459 --> 00:18:01,949
but don't necessarily want to join

462
00:18:06,499 --> 00:18:04,469
they've also got a Sydney acres of the

463
00:18:08,949 --> 00:18:06,509
competition for a slogan after the very

464
00:18:11,209 --> 00:18:08,959
successful Bus campaign in London oh yes

465
00:18:13,430 --> 00:18:11,219
they're looking for a slogan which could

466
00:18:16,549 --> 00:18:13,440
be similarly used in Australia to the

467
00:18:19,009 --> 00:18:16,559
aim is to promote the idea that one can

468
00:18:21,109 --> 00:18:19,019
hold atheists beliefs without being

469
00:18:23,479 --> 00:18:21,119
outside Iran fringe or in some way

470
00:18:24,919 --> 00:18:23,489
you're tearing you down society that's

471
00:18:26,209 --> 00:18:24,929
right running around committing crimes

472
00:18:28,279 --> 00:18:26,219
willy-nilly or something like that

473
00:18:30,199 --> 00:18:28,289
that's right atheists not necessarily

474
00:18:32,149 --> 00:18:30,209
amicus in fact I think quite the

475
00:18:33,829 --> 00:18:32,159
opposite if you're an atheist you have

476
00:18:36,949 --> 00:18:33,839
justify your belief at least if you're

477
00:18:39,319 --> 00:18:36,959
skeptical type that's right now if

478
00:18:41,839 --> 00:18:39,329
people were wish to find out more about

479
00:18:45,469 --> 00:18:41,849
your circular party in what can they do

480
00:18:47,959 --> 00:18:45,479
they can visit our website wwc cool or

481
00:18:50,149 --> 00:18:47,969
got a new but they're more interesting

482
00:18:53,389 --> 00:18:50,159
bit of entertainment they can visit my

483
00:18:54,739 --> 00:18:53,399
website world truth today dot org we'll

484
00:18:56,599 --> 00:18:54,749
just set up to counter world youth day

485
00:18:58,759 --> 00:18:56,609
and then they can read about the

486
00:19:00,379 --> 00:18:58,769
exploits at the popemobile and indeed

487
00:19:01,549 --> 00:19:00,389
they can see a video of the punk nabil

488
00:19:05,479 --> 00:19:01,559
whizzing through the streets of sydney

489
00:19:06,739 --> 00:19:05,489
is indeed and when we this happened

490
00:19:09,229 --> 00:19:06,749
during World Youth Day as a protest

491
00:19:10,699 --> 00:19:09,239
against the Pope's activities and we can

492
00:19:12,499 --> 00:19:10,709
be detention but police a number of

493
00:19:14,529 --> 00:19:12,509
times or you're off the core don't you

494
00:19:18,979 --> 00:19:14,539
yes up to court on the first in December

495
00:19:21,889 --> 00:19:18,989
charged with having a refinement likely

496
00:19:23,659 --> 00:19:21,899
to distract motorists and I have to

497
00:19:26,149 --> 00:19:23,669
admit that it certainly was intended to

498
00:19:28,159 --> 00:19:26,159
do that as I most of the mobile

499
00:19:29,779 --> 00:19:28,169
advertising signs it's exactly right

500
00:19:31,339 --> 00:19:29,789
I've seen some doozies well look I'll

501
00:19:32,930 --> 00:19:31,349
try to get along to support you in

502
00:19:34,309 --> 00:19:32,940
cordial but good to see you and good

503
00:19:38,029 --> 00:19:34,319
luck with the rest of the day thank you

504
00:19:40,309 --> 00:19:38,039
Richard believe it or not there isn'ta

505
00:19:41,779 --> 00:19:40,319
too I just happen to bump into Tiffany

506
00:19:44,089 --> 00:19:41,789
day you'll remember Tiffany day from our

507
00:19:46,369 --> 00:19:44,099
last episode from the Macquarie skeptics

508
00:19:47,599 --> 00:19:46,379
hello Tiffany hi Richard hey going now

509
00:19:50,749 --> 00:19:47,609
you're getting to be a regular on the

510
00:19:53,599 --> 00:19:50,759
show yes it seems so it seems that way

511
00:19:55,789 --> 00:19:53,609
so you've come out here today to support

512
00:19:58,009 --> 00:19:55,799
the the atheist side of the temple yes

513
00:19:59,670 --> 00:19:58,019
the Sydney atheist website Sydney

514
00:20:01,350 --> 00:19:59,680
atheist org

515
00:20:03,360 --> 00:20:01,360
and i'm here to help out handing out

516
00:20:06,450 --> 00:20:03,370
flyers that's fantastic with your

517
00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:06,460
religion kills a international health

518
00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:08,050
warning t-shirt on like the cigarette

519
00:20:12,810 --> 00:20:10,690
packet warning level well you look very

520
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:12,820
very nice standing next to the Pope here

521
00:20:16,890 --> 00:20:15,010
a mistake yes he's on the phone to go at

522
00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:16,900
the moment so try not to disturb you

523
00:20:25,170 --> 00:20:19,330
great to see you again Tiffany thanks

524
00:20:27,030 --> 00:20:25,180
Richard the tree and this is a strange

525
00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:27,040
thing here I've come across it's a gong

526
00:20:32,730 --> 00:20:30,610
that's standing up hello hello hi what's

527
00:20:36,590 --> 00:20:32,740
your name flag hello Fleur now why are

528
00:20:39,060 --> 00:20:36,600
you here today oh just hear the apse oh

529
00:20:40,950 --> 00:20:39,070
yeah this is great everybody there's a

530
00:20:43,740 --> 00:20:40,960
sort of a stand here of a metal stand

531
00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:43,750
with a golden brass gong and a handle

532
00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:45,970
and it says underneath hit the gong if

533
00:20:58,960 --> 00:20:56,830
an angel died oh sorry I just killed an

534
00:21:00,279 --> 00:20:58,970
angel apparently well if I don't get

535
00:21:01,930 --> 00:21:00,289
struck by lightning or thunder in the

536
00:21:20,289 --> 00:21:01,940
next couple of minutes i'll be doing

537
00:21:24,529 --> 00:21:22,639
astronomy cast it takes a fact space

538
00:21:26,419 --> 00:21:24,539
journey through the cosmos as it offers

539
00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:26,429
listeners weekly discussions on

540
00:21:31,970 --> 00:21:29,129
astronomical topics ranging from planets

541
00:21:34,340 --> 00:21:31,980
to cosmology hosted by Fraser Cain of

542
00:21:35,330 --> 00:21:34,350
Universe Today and myself dr. Pamela

543
00:21:37,999 --> 00:21:35,340
gave southern illinois university

544
00:21:39,889 --> 00:21:38,009
edwardsville this show brings the

545
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:39,899
questions of an avid astronomy lover

546
00:21:44,419 --> 00:21:42,330
directly to an astronomer together

547
00:21:45,950 --> 00:21:44,429
Fraser and I explore what is known and

548
00:21:48,710 --> 00:21:45,960
being discovered about the universe

549
00:21:50,779 --> 00:21:48,720
around us join us each week as we take a

550
00:22:02,029 --> 00:21:50,789
fact space journey through the cosmos at

551
00:22:04,700 --> 00:22:02,039
astronomy cast calm now it's time for

552
00:22:10,340 --> 00:22:04,710
dr. Richie reports with dr. Rachel

553
00:22:12,229 --> 00:22:10,350
Dunlop Steve novella is a clinical

554
00:22:14,389 --> 00:22:12,239
neurologist and academic at Yale

555
00:22:16,190 --> 00:22:14,399
University School of Medicine he is the

556
00:22:19,009 --> 00:22:16,200
co-founder and president of the New

557
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:19,019
England skeptical Society the associate

558
00:22:22,820 --> 00:22:20,730
editor of the journal of the scientific

559
00:22:25,039 --> 00:22:22,830
review of alternative medicine and a

560
00:22:27,169 --> 00:22:25,049
contributing editor to quack watch which

561
00:22:29,599 --> 00:22:27,179
is a consumer advocacy website dealing

562
00:22:31,220 --> 00:22:29,609
with all types of health fraud Steve

563
00:22:33,799 --> 00:22:31,230
also writes the monthly column weird

564
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:33,809
science for the new haven advocate but

565
00:22:36,919 --> 00:22:35,129
of course most of you would know him

566
00:22:39,710 --> 00:22:36,929
best as the host of the skeptics guide

567
00:22:41,930 --> 00:22:39,720
to the universe which is one of the most

568
00:22:44,659 --> 00:22:41,940
popular skeptical podcasts in the world

569
00:22:46,789 --> 00:22:44,669
and currently has about forty thousand

570
00:22:49,099 --> 00:22:46,799
listeners each week there's also a

571
00:22:52,220 --> 00:22:49,109
companion podcast called skeptics guide

572
00:22:54,590 --> 00:22:52,230
five by five and on top of this steve

573
00:22:57,229 --> 00:22:54,600
has several blogs some of which he

574
00:22:58,789 --> 00:22:57,239
contributes to his owners neurologica he

575
00:23:01,220 --> 00:22:58,799
also contributes to science-based

576
00:23:04,039 --> 00:23:01,230
medicine and skeptic blog which is the

577
00:23:05,989 --> 00:23:04,049
blog of the sceptile adjusts so welcome

578
00:23:06,950 --> 00:23:05,999
to the skeptic zone Steve thanks for

579
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:06,960
having me it's great to be with you guys

580
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:09,570
well based on what I've just summarized

581
00:23:15,470 --> 00:23:11,970
about what you do let me start by asking

582
00:23:17,210 --> 00:23:15,480
you how do you find a time it certainly

583
00:23:19,759 --> 00:23:17,220
is a lot of work I mean is there's no

584
00:23:22,549 --> 00:23:19,769
way around that you know writing a daily

585
00:23:24,649 --> 00:23:22,559
blog and producing two podcasts in

586
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:24,659
addition to that medical career thing

587
00:23:30,979 --> 00:23:27,690
I got going as a side that's that's just

588
00:23:33,229 --> 00:23:30,989
a part time but crisis part time but you

589
00:23:35,479 --> 00:23:33,239
know part of it is the beauty of

590
00:23:37,339 --> 00:23:35,489
computers you know I always or pretty

591
00:23:40,430 --> 00:23:37,349
much always have access to at least my

592
00:23:43,129 --> 00:23:40,440
laptop so I can make productive time and

593
00:23:45,409 --> 00:23:43,139
ever whenever possible but also in all

594
00:23:47,779 --> 00:23:45,419
honesty it's not what I do is not very

595
00:23:50,149 --> 00:23:47,789
different than my by academic colleagues

596
00:23:51,979 --> 00:23:50,159
you know you have a pretty much 925

597
00:23:53,599 --> 00:23:51,989
either clinical research schedule and

598
00:23:56,089 --> 00:23:53,609
then nights and weekends you spend doing

599
00:23:59,180 --> 00:23:56,099
your academic writing or research or

600
00:24:01,879 --> 00:23:59,190
editing a book or something but I just

601
00:24:05,210 --> 00:24:01,889
choose to to funnel my academic time

602
00:24:07,789 --> 00:24:05,220
primarily into promoting science

603
00:24:09,739 --> 00:24:07,799
education and science understanding so

604
00:24:11,899 --> 00:24:09,749
so Ivy Tech blah I'm not really any

605
00:24:13,369 --> 00:24:11,909
busier than my average academic

606
00:24:14,659 --> 00:24:13,379
colleague to be honest with you well

607
00:24:16,849 --> 00:24:14,669
actually stay we've got some breaking

608
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:16,859
news to tell our listeners in the

609
00:24:20,419 --> 00:24:18,690
southern hemisphere haven't we where the

610
00:24:23,749 --> 00:24:20,429
skeptic donor very excited to announce

611
00:24:25,219 --> 00:24:23,759
that just a few hours ago you and the

612
00:24:27,710 --> 00:24:25,229
rest of SGU announced that you're

613
00:24:29,629 --> 00:24:27,720
finally coming to Australia yay we are

614
00:24:32,779 --> 00:24:29,639
definitely planning coming to australia

615
00:24:34,909 --> 00:24:32,789
in 2010 Richard was kind enough Richard

616
00:24:37,219 --> 00:24:34,919
Saunders to invite us down and we jumped

617
00:24:39,289 --> 00:24:37,229
at the chance that's fantastic news and

618
00:24:40,849 --> 00:24:39,299
that's going to be for the 2010

619
00:24:43,450 --> 00:24:40,859
Australian skeptics National Convention

620
00:24:45,619 --> 00:24:43,460
in Sydney yeah really really looking for

621
00:24:48,499 --> 00:24:45,629
well the whole team is gonna come is

622
00:24:51,039 --> 00:24:48,509
that right yes the whole sut fantaken

623
00:24:53,239 --> 00:24:51,049
first and for being left behind so

624
00:24:54,769 --> 00:24:53,249
better bring everybody that's going to

625
00:24:57,619 --> 00:24:54,779
be very exciting we look forward to that

626
00:24:59,269 --> 00:24:57,629
now one of my bugbears Steve and I think

627
00:25:00,320 --> 00:24:59,279
this is um certainly one of yours as

628
00:25:02,719 --> 00:25:00,330
well I don't know if you'd call it a

629
00:25:05,180 --> 00:25:02,729
bugbear but its alternative medicine

630
00:25:07,460 --> 00:25:05,190
which is also known as well and woo are

631
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:07,470
some people call it and of course you've

632
00:25:11,989 --> 00:25:09,690
done a lot to educate people about some

633
00:25:14,269 --> 00:25:11,999
of the dangers of alternative medicine

634
00:25:15,919 --> 00:25:14,279
three all your blogs and websites that

635
00:25:17,419 --> 00:25:15,929
you have but one of the things you

636
00:25:18,859 --> 00:25:17,429
mentioned to me recently was that there

637
00:25:21,619 --> 00:25:18,869
are not many doctors out there who are

638
00:25:23,629 --> 00:25:21,629
doing this and I like you tend to go to

639
00:25:26,029 --> 00:25:23,639
psychic shows and well-being festivals

640
00:25:28,339 --> 00:25:26,039
and i SAT through almost every episode

641
00:25:29,899 --> 00:25:28,349
of the filming of the one which as you

642
00:25:33,589 --> 00:25:29,909
know Richard Saunders was the sceptical

643
00:25:35,930 --> 00:25:33,599
judge on and it was a true yeah then I

644
00:25:38,239 --> 00:25:35,940
was for education and research that I'm

645
00:25:38,510 --> 00:25:38,249
what I wanted to ask you was why do you

646
00:25:40,730 --> 00:25:38,520
think

647
00:25:42,020 --> 00:25:40,740
doctors and science professionals don't

648
00:25:45,110 --> 00:25:42,030
get out there and do this stuff will

649
00:25:48,740 --> 00:25:45,120
make a fuss yeah there's a curious lack

650
00:25:51,380 --> 00:25:48,750
of outrage amongst rank-and-file

651
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:51,390
academics and physicians as to what's

652
00:25:58,490 --> 00:25:55,410
happening and I speak quite a bit to two

653
00:26:00,170 --> 00:25:58,500
other physicians about this issue those

654
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:00,180
I think thinking of those who see what's

655
00:26:05,870 --> 00:26:03,210
going on for what it is which to just

656
00:26:08,210 --> 00:26:05,880
briefly summarize what i think the

657
00:26:10,490 --> 00:26:08,220
alternative medicine or cam movement is

658
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:10,500
about it's basically an attack on the

659
00:26:14,870 --> 00:26:12,330
scientific basis of the standard of care

660
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:14,880
it's an attempt to create a double

661
00:26:19,310 --> 00:26:16,650
standard to carve out this separate

662
00:26:21,830 --> 00:26:19,320
standard where science and good science

663
00:26:24,350 --> 00:26:21,840
is not the standard of care yeah in

664
00:26:27,110 --> 00:26:24,360
essence so that anything can go because

665
00:26:29,090 --> 00:26:27,120
obviously you know if you if you there

666
00:26:32,300 --> 00:26:29,100
are true believe or a proponent of a

667
00:26:33,890 --> 00:26:32,310
treatment modality that doesn't not meet

668
00:26:36,350 --> 00:26:33,900
the rigorous standards of science or

669
00:26:37,730 --> 00:26:36,360
you're a charlatan or a fraud who wants

670
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:37,740
to make money off of a treatment that

671
00:26:41,750 --> 00:26:39,810
doesn't meet ethical or scientific

672
00:26:43,820 --> 00:26:41,760
standards then you'd like to have this

673
00:26:46,070 --> 00:26:43,830
carved out special exception for you

674
00:26:49,130 --> 00:26:46,080
where you can pursue your trade without

675
00:26:51,350 --> 00:26:49,140
having to do things like research or you

676
00:26:54,950 --> 00:26:51,360
have have a basic science you know

677
00:26:56,420 --> 00:26:54,960
support your notions so and a lot of it

678
00:26:58,790 --> 00:26:56,430
also is an attempt to insert

679
00:27:00,740 --> 00:26:58,800
spirituality or faith into medicine show

680
00:27:04,190 --> 00:27:00,750
as well a lot of these belief systems

681
00:27:06,170 --> 00:27:04,200
are basically religions so that that's

682
00:27:07,790 --> 00:27:06,180
what's happening and yet I think just

683
00:27:09,140 --> 00:27:07,800
most of most of my colleagues don't

684
00:27:11,590 --> 00:27:09,150
understand that they don't really see

685
00:27:14,860 --> 00:27:11,600
that and part of the reason is because

686
00:27:18,500 --> 00:27:14,870
the camp proponents have become very

687
00:27:21,830 --> 00:27:18,510
expert over the decades at couching what

688
00:27:23,900 --> 00:27:21,840
they're doing in in very appealing

689
00:27:27,140 --> 00:27:23,910
terminology they are masters of the

690
00:27:29,030 --> 00:27:27,150
language in fact the entire notion of

691
00:27:30,590 --> 00:27:29,040
complementary alternative medicine or

692
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:30,600
integrative medicine is another term

693
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:32,850
that's being used is it is a temp to

694
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:34,410
control the length you know it's it's

695
00:27:37,820 --> 00:27:36,330
saying it's an alternative well it's an

696
00:27:41,030 --> 00:27:37,830
alternative to what to science-based

697
00:27:42,500 --> 00:27:41,040
medicine or that scum yeah or its

698
00:27:44,570 --> 00:27:42,510
complementary or integrated other which

699
00:27:46,340 --> 00:27:44,580
you can integrate medicine that is that

700
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:46,350
is based on science and we owe is is

701
00:27:49,820 --> 00:27:47,850
safe and effective with treatments that

702
00:27:50,990 --> 00:27:49,830
what that don't work or that for which

703
00:27:51,980 --> 00:27:51,000
we don't know if they're safe and

704
00:27:54,410 --> 00:27:51,990
effective

705
00:27:55,310 --> 00:27:54,420
it's it's contradictory it's kind of

706
00:27:56,870 --> 00:27:55,320
like saying well we can integrate

707
00:27:58,669 --> 00:27:56,880
intelligent design and evolution

708
00:28:00,620 --> 00:27:58,679
education is like now you can't teach

709
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:00,630
students legitimate signs and then

710
00:28:04,100 --> 00:28:02,490
confuse them with an a bastardization of

711
00:28:06,290 --> 00:28:04,110
science at the same time there's just

712
00:28:08,780 --> 00:28:06,300
certain things just can't be integrated

713
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:08,790
together so they've they've done a

714
00:28:11,750 --> 00:28:10,050
really good job at controlling the

715
00:28:13,549 --> 00:28:11,760
language they've you know couched what

716
00:28:15,410 --> 00:28:13,559
they're doing in terms of things like a

717
00:28:17,210 --> 00:28:15,420
holistic medicine and say we want to

718
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:17,220
treat the whole person you know mind

719
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:19,530
body spirit it sounds really good

720
00:28:25,669 --> 00:28:22,890
superficially but it's really all just a

721
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:25,679
hand waving distraction from the only

722
00:28:30,230 --> 00:28:27,570
issue that really matters and that is

723
00:28:32,930 --> 00:28:30,240
getting away from science as the

724
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:32,940
standard for health care and so it's

725
00:28:36,980 --> 00:28:35,250
mainly so it's part of it is just

726
00:28:38,930 --> 00:28:36,990
confusion as to what's actually going on

727
00:28:42,049 --> 00:28:38,940
the other part of it is this sort of

728
00:28:44,510 --> 00:28:42,059
mascota chol correctness or notion of

729
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:44,520
democracy fairness or even academic

730
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:47,010
freedom in the u.s. especially that

731
00:28:52,460 --> 00:28:49,890
those kind of themes play really really

732
00:28:54,350 --> 00:28:52,470
well and I hear that a lot you know from

733
00:28:56,270 --> 00:28:54,360
my colleagues you know when I say well

734
00:28:58,010 --> 00:28:56,280
you know what why aren't you outraged

735
00:29:00,860 --> 00:28:58,020
about this it's like oh we're just being

736
00:29:03,230 --> 00:29:00,870
you know fair and open net you know I

737
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:03,240
we're not going to repress somebody

738
00:29:07,580 --> 00:29:04,770
else's ability to pursue what they

739
00:29:09,230 --> 00:29:07,590
believe in or clay want you know which

740
00:29:12,140 --> 00:29:09,240
is dangerous isn't it because a lot of

741
00:29:14,180 --> 00:29:12,150
this stuff is is dangerous in the sense

742
00:29:15,890 --> 00:29:14,190
that some of these practitioners will

743
00:29:17,570 --> 00:29:15,900
tell you to stop taking your

744
00:29:19,910 --> 00:29:17,580
conventional therapy and start taking

745
00:29:21,860 --> 00:29:19,920
theirs and in that case you're putting

746
00:29:24,260 --> 00:29:21,870
people's lives at risk potentially so

747
00:29:26,450 --> 00:29:24,270
yeah absolutely i mean that is the most

748
00:29:28,700 --> 00:29:26,460
obvious direct harm is diverting

749
00:29:32,870 --> 00:29:28,710
treatment away from treatments that are

750
00:29:35,780 --> 00:29:32,880
effective there's a guy selling his

751
00:29:37,820 --> 00:29:35,790
supplements in africa for aids telling

752
00:29:39,950 --> 00:29:37,830
his clients stop taking your

753
00:29:42,590 --> 00:29:39,960
antiretroviral drugs take my herbs

754
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:42,600
instead and directly telling them not to

755
00:29:46,669 --> 00:29:44,490
take the conventional medicine so that

756
00:29:48,290 --> 00:29:46,679
happens a lot sometimes even when it's

757
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:48,300
not intentional it's just diverting

758
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:50,250
people's energy time and attention away

759
00:29:55,100 --> 00:29:52,890
from more effective treatments sometimes

760
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:55,110
patients can't afford their prescription

761
00:29:59,210 --> 00:29:56,610
medications were there conventional

762
00:30:00,620 --> 00:29:59,220
treatment and the alternative treatment

763
00:30:02,659 --> 00:30:00,630
in there or they have to choose between

764
00:30:04,549 --> 00:30:02,669
the two and you know often they'll

765
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:04,559
choose the one that's offering the most

766
00:30:08,070 --> 00:30:05,410
pope

767
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:08,080
even the false hope that's true there's

768
00:30:10,470 --> 00:30:09,250
many other kinds of harm though too

769
00:30:11,900 --> 00:30:10,480
while we're talking about them it's

770
00:30:13,740 --> 00:30:11,910
obviously sometimes there's direct harm

771
00:30:15,350 --> 00:30:13,750
physical harm from the treatment itself

772
00:30:18,530 --> 00:30:15,360
not all of these treatments are safe

773
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:18,540
chelation therapy has resulted in the

774
00:30:23,490 --> 00:30:21,490
death even a young child who is treating

775
00:30:25,590 --> 00:30:23,500
being treated with chelation therapy for

776
00:30:28,860 --> 00:30:25,600
autism which is not not indicated

777
00:30:30,900 --> 00:30:28,870
treatment this is your base tubercular

778
00:30:33,140 --> 00:30:30,910
poisoning notion which is this was false

779
00:30:37,530 --> 00:30:33,150
there's other harm you know if you

780
00:30:39,210 --> 00:30:37,540
inculcate a bizarre or anti scientific

781
00:30:41,370 --> 00:30:39,220
notions of health and disease there's

782
00:30:43,350 --> 00:30:41,380
lots of downstream harm from that

783
00:30:45,630 --> 00:30:43,360
there's financial harm and there's

784
00:30:49,170 --> 00:30:45,640
tremendous psychological harm and I see

785
00:30:53,580 --> 00:30:49,180
that myself you know patients invest a

786
00:30:55,770 --> 00:30:53,590
great deal of emotion and again and hope

787
00:30:57,900 --> 00:30:55,780
in what turns out to be a false hope and

788
00:30:59,970 --> 00:30:57,910
then it's like rubbing salt in the

789
00:31:02,250 --> 00:30:59,980
wounds they have oftentimes a desperate

790
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:02,260
even maybe terminal illness and then

791
00:31:07,410 --> 00:31:05,050
someone comes along takes you know a

792
00:31:08,970 --> 00:31:07,420
huge chunk of money from them yes you

793
00:31:11,790 --> 00:31:08,980
know wastes their time and energy with

794
00:31:13,530 --> 00:31:11,800
false hope for a period of time then

795
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:13,540
they have that second let down when it

796
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:16,210
kind of dawns on them that this I've

797
00:31:20,940 --> 00:31:17,530
been hoodwinked you know on top of

798
00:31:22,410 --> 00:31:20,950
having a horrible no I victim of a fraud

799
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:22,420
it's just it's a double whammy I

800
00:31:26,610 --> 00:31:24,250
actually have a friend in Australia who

801
00:31:28,770 --> 00:31:26,620
is currently undergoing chemotherapy and

802
00:31:31,260 --> 00:31:28,780
she's she's got very virulent cancer

803
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:31,270
she's very sick she's not long for this

804
00:31:35,700 --> 00:31:33,490
world and of course she's desperate and

805
00:31:38,580 --> 00:31:35,710
she's vulnerable and she recently fell

806
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:38,590
victim to her hair analysis and these

807
00:31:41,580 --> 00:31:39,970
people have told her that you know she

808
00:31:44,490 --> 00:31:41,590
can't eat tomatoes and she can eat

809
00:31:47,220 --> 00:31:44,500
macadamia nuts but not peanuts and this

810
00:31:49,140 --> 00:31:47,230
woman is tragically gonna die soon and

811
00:31:51,090 --> 00:31:49,150
now her whole life is focused around

812
00:31:52,590 --> 00:31:51,100
below can't have a glass of wine because

813
00:31:54,510 --> 00:31:52,600
the hair analysis people said I

814
00:31:56,700 --> 00:31:54,520
shouldn't and it's really compromising

815
00:31:58,590 --> 00:31:56,710
the last days that she's got left that's

816
00:32:00,660 --> 00:31:58,600
an extremely good point and you know I

817
00:32:02,750 --> 00:32:00,670
see that as well I deal with often

818
00:32:06,180 --> 00:32:02,760
terminal neurological illness such as

819
00:32:08,100 --> 00:32:06,190
ALS or motor neuron disease you know

820
00:32:09,450 --> 00:32:08,110
oftentimes for some patients all we

821
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:09,460
could really do for them if it's been

822
00:32:15,090 --> 00:32:11,890
curable illness is try to make the

823
00:32:18,030 --> 00:32:15,100
remaining time as long productive and

824
00:32:19,350 --> 00:32:18,040
high-quality as we as we can and that

825
00:32:21,060 --> 00:32:19,360
has value you know if you

826
00:32:22,799 --> 00:32:21,070
a couple years to live you want to be

827
00:32:25,169 --> 00:32:22,809
spend that with your family or your

828
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:25,179
loved ones and and be as active as you

829
00:32:32,789 --> 00:32:28,690
can and functional as you can be I last

830
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:32,799
one died age yeah thanks but that that

831
00:32:37,350 --> 00:32:35,170
last time is taken away from them while

832
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:37,360
they're pursuing you know these these

833
00:32:42,299 --> 00:32:39,370
false hopes and we've had patients go to

834
00:32:44,310 --> 00:32:42,309
China to get fake stem cell therapy and

835
00:32:46,289 --> 00:32:44,320
they died over there probably either

836
00:32:48,510 --> 00:32:46,299
just of their disease or complications

837
00:32:51,150 --> 00:32:48,520
of this treatment infections and whatnot

838
00:32:52,860 --> 00:32:51,160
but only after being billed for thirty

839
00:32:54,510 --> 00:32:52,870
forty thousand dollars for them for the

840
00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:54,520
whole deal and that's it they've looked

841
00:32:58,890 --> 00:32:57,490
there last year or so of life was stolen

842
00:33:01,470 --> 00:32:58,900
from them just so that somebody could

843
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:01,480
could make a fast buck and that in your

844
00:33:04,890 --> 00:33:03,130
opinion that's that's fraudulent

845
00:33:07,350 --> 00:33:04,900
behavior not deluded behavior would you

846
00:33:09,419 --> 00:33:07,360
say from the alternative medicine

847
00:33:11,430 --> 00:33:09,429
proponents in that case well it

848
00:33:13,350 --> 00:33:11,440
obviously is the whole spectrum within

849
00:33:15,330 --> 00:33:13,360
the broad umbrella began this sort of

850
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:15,340
fake category have alternative medicine

851
00:33:19,950 --> 00:33:17,890
it's hard to Saul ways say for sure with

852
00:33:21,330 --> 00:33:19,960
an individual because you can't read

853
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:21,340
mind you know how deluded are they

854
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:23,290
versus fraudulent there are some cases

855
00:33:27,180 --> 00:33:25,690
where you know they have to be

856
00:33:28,860 --> 00:33:27,190
committing fraud like psychic surgery

857
00:33:32,010 --> 00:33:28,870
which is popular in the Philippines so

858
00:33:33,510 --> 00:33:32,020
they're they're pretending to you like

859
00:33:35,039 --> 00:33:33,520
psychically put their hands inside

860
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:35,049
somebody and remove tumors or whatever

861
00:33:39,169 --> 00:33:36,970
they say psychically diagnosed and

862
00:33:41,669 --> 00:33:39,179
they're palming chicken parts and then

863
00:33:43,380 --> 00:33:41,679
revealing the O's to the people in order

864
00:33:45,780 --> 00:33:43,390
to deceive them that's a level of

865
00:33:48,750 --> 00:33:45,790
deception that requires culpability that

866
00:33:50,909 --> 00:33:48,760
requires a knowledge of what you're

867
00:33:53,190 --> 00:33:50,919
doing it that's premeditated yeah then

868
00:33:56,549 --> 00:33:53,200
you get to the gray area like these stem

869
00:33:58,890 --> 00:33:56,559
cell clinics in China and you know it is

870
00:34:00,720 --> 00:33:58,900
separately by their behavior I think

871
00:34:04,650 --> 00:34:00,730
it's not so much that they necessarily

872
00:34:06,390 --> 00:34:04,660
feel that there's no potential value to

873
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:06,400
what they're doing I think they just

874
00:34:14,190 --> 00:34:10,330
don't care it's it's they have you know

875
00:34:16,740 --> 00:34:14,200
some plausible deniability they're doing

876
00:34:18,869 --> 00:34:16,750
something they're getting tons of money

877
00:34:20,580 --> 00:34:18,879
from desperate wealthy Westerners you

878
00:34:22,590 --> 00:34:20,590
know from their point of view yeah and

879
00:34:26,099 --> 00:34:22,600
whether or not it actually works is kind

880
00:34:28,619 --> 00:34:26,109
of a secondary concern so there it may

881
00:34:30,389 --> 00:34:28,629
not be that they know it's fraudulent so

882
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:30,399
much as they just don't care if it works

883
00:34:33,210 --> 00:34:33,010
or not and then there's definitely at

884
00:34:36,359 --> 00:34:33,220
the

885
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:36,369
believers who yeah this is a religious

886
00:34:41,550 --> 00:34:38,290
belief to that or that are just so

887
00:34:44,010 --> 00:34:41,560
confused by the pseudoscience that they

888
00:34:45,649 --> 00:34:44,020
really think that it works or what

889
00:34:47,879 --> 00:34:45,659
they're doing is legitimate they're just

890
00:34:50,550 --> 00:34:47,889
profoundly confused about the science

891
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:50,560
mmm well what that sort of leads me on

892
00:34:54,419 --> 00:34:52,090
to the next question which is about the

893
00:34:57,300 --> 00:34:54,429
hijacking of scientific terminology by

894
00:35:00,240 --> 00:34:57,310
can proponents and recently I attended

895
00:35:01,470 --> 00:35:00,250
the mind body spirit or wallet festival

896
00:35:03,870 --> 00:35:01,480
as we affectionately call it in

897
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:03,880
Australia right and you'll be amazed Eve

898
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:05,770
there's you know that quantum technology

899
00:35:11,700 --> 00:35:07,810
is working in alternative medicine I

900
00:35:13,380 --> 00:35:11,710
don't know if you've had what god damn

901
00:35:15,510 --> 00:35:13,390
technologies awesome I mean you know you

902
00:35:17,339 --> 00:35:15,520
just say the word quantum anything and

903
00:35:20,310 --> 00:35:17,349
it's instant you know to instant

904
00:35:21,930 --> 00:35:20,320
pseudoscience oh yeah um yeah that's

905
00:35:23,250 --> 00:35:21,940
yeah that's all it's all about the

906
00:35:26,670 --> 00:35:23,260
marketing which is the one thing that

907
00:35:28,710 --> 00:35:26,680
cam industry does extremely well it's

908
00:35:30,330 --> 00:35:28,720
all about the marketing and also they

909
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:30,340
have an advantage in that they're not

910
00:35:35,220 --> 00:35:32,410
constrained by things like facts and

911
00:35:37,260 --> 00:35:35,230
ethics so if you're not so yeah you're

912
00:35:40,859 --> 00:35:37,270
not so constrained you can you can model

913
00:35:44,790 --> 00:35:40,869
your marketing purely for you know

914
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:44,800
psychological impact and couching there

915
00:35:50,820 --> 00:35:47,050
are certain themes that that they follow

916
00:35:53,190 --> 00:35:50,830
one theme is the new gee whiz technology

917
00:35:55,050 --> 00:35:53,200
and this is this has been going on for a

918
00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:55,060
long long time ever since science has

919
00:35:59,670 --> 00:35:56,650
been sort of institutionalized and

920
00:36:03,210 --> 00:35:59,680
invoke in civilization so hundred years

921
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:03,220
ago the the cutting-edge science II kind

922
00:36:06,810 --> 00:36:05,170
of treatment was radiation so they were

923
00:36:08,130 --> 00:36:06,820
radioactive tonics that people thought

924
00:36:09,300 --> 00:36:08,140
were the late latest greatest thing a

925
00:36:11,250 --> 00:36:09,310
hundred years before that it was

926
00:36:13,050 --> 00:36:11,260
electromagnetism so that's where Mesmer

927
00:36:14,970 --> 00:36:13,060
you know comes in with his animal

928
00:36:18,630 --> 00:36:14,980
magnetism that you can use to cure just

929
00:36:21,510 --> 00:36:18,640
about anything and now it's quantum you

930
00:36:24,570 --> 00:36:21,520
know is you Deepak Chopra's quantum

931
00:36:27,750 --> 00:36:24,580
healing for example or that sort of puts

932
00:36:29,940 --> 00:36:27,760
it it's a new way of justifying the

933
00:36:31,710 --> 00:36:29,950
idealistic notions that are thousands of

934
00:36:33,930 --> 00:36:31,720
years old look at that notion of this

935
00:36:35,670 --> 00:36:33,940
life energy so now you just throw

936
00:36:37,079 --> 00:36:35,680
quantum in front of it yeah the quantum

937
00:36:39,230 --> 00:36:37,089
life energy but it's the same sort of

938
00:36:41,700 --> 00:36:39,240
spiritual pre-scientific notions that

939
00:36:44,579 --> 00:36:41,710
you know we're weeded out of scientific

940
00:36:47,180 --> 00:36:44,589
thinking over a hundred years ago but

941
00:36:49,790 --> 00:36:47,190
yet the extremely effective marketing

942
00:36:51,829 --> 00:36:49,800
it's funny actually because I had a

943
00:36:54,020 --> 00:36:51,839
conversation with a live blood analysis

944
00:36:56,359 --> 00:36:54,030
person at the previous mind body spirit

945
00:36:58,069 --> 00:36:56,369
yeah I liking it Steve to someone who

946
00:37:00,020 --> 00:36:58,079
would place a whole lot of scientific

947
00:37:02,059 --> 00:37:00,030
words and jargon in a hat and just pull

948
00:37:03,559 --> 00:37:02,069
them out at random and then pepper

949
00:37:06,109 --> 00:37:03,569
they're sort of spell with these

950
00:37:07,700 --> 00:37:06,119
scientific words and so to someone who

951
00:37:10,819 --> 00:37:07,710
doesn't have a lot of science education

952
00:37:12,710 --> 00:37:10,829
it sounds kind of like it might be right

953
00:37:15,710 --> 00:37:12,720
because it's sciency and it's you know

954
00:37:17,210 --> 00:37:15,720
technical so what you say about the

955
00:37:19,730 --> 00:37:17,220
marketing is true that's what's what

956
00:37:22,069 --> 00:37:19,740
they do it's the point is to to befuddle

957
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:22,079
with technobabble you know so people

958
00:37:26,210 --> 00:37:24,450
have this vague sense that it's sciency

959
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:26,220
but they don't understand enough to

960
00:37:32,030 --> 00:37:28,410
realize that it doesn't make any sense

961
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:32,040
I've seen that in product marketing as

962
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:33,930
well like health care products this one

963
00:37:38,420 --> 00:37:35,490
catalog came from the name with a

964
00:37:39,890 --> 00:37:38,430
catalogue that we examined at one point

965
00:37:41,660 --> 00:37:39,900
it was I had about a hundred different

966
00:37:43,910 --> 00:37:41,670
pseudo-scientific products and their

967
00:37:47,660 --> 00:37:43,920
health products a number like one they

968
00:37:49,370 --> 00:37:47,670
had this cloth that had infrared the

969
00:37:54,079 --> 00:37:49,380
infrared spectrum woven into the fabric

970
00:37:55,460 --> 00:37:54,089
oh man what does that be like red woven

971
00:37:57,500 --> 00:37:55,470
into the fabric what does that even mean

972
00:37:58,910 --> 00:37:57,510
but had the word infrared in it it

973
00:38:00,620 --> 00:37:58,920
sounded good it kind of made it all

974
00:38:02,569 --> 00:38:00,630
again as you say all sciency we gotta

975
00:38:04,700 --> 00:38:02,579
get that is that is a deliberate attempt

976
00:38:06,319 --> 00:38:04,710
to deceive that's what that is the other

977
00:38:08,839 --> 00:38:06,329
thing that they all do a lot of them

978
00:38:11,210 --> 00:38:08,849
have dr. at the front of their names and

979
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:11,220
I recently was doing some research on

980
00:38:16,910 --> 00:38:13,650
this but I wonder if you know much about

981
00:38:19,430 --> 00:38:16,920
how easy it is for a layman or anyone

982
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:19,440
really to find out if someone's doctor

983
00:38:23,839 --> 00:38:21,810
is legitimate because you know there's

984
00:38:26,089 --> 00:38:23,849
so many diploma mills around these days

985
00:38:30,559 --> 00:38:26,099
it's it's not always easy to find out if

986
00:38:32,329 --> 00:38:30,569
someone actually does have a PhD uh yeah

987
00:38:34,010 --> 00:38:32,339
that's showing that you can search on

988
00:38:36,260 --> 00:38:34,020
them on the web and you ask them for the

989
00:38:38,450 --> 00:38:36,270
details if they can't provide you with a

990
00:38:40,460 --> 00:38:38,460
legitimate institution that provided

991
00:38:41,990 --> 00:38:40,470
their degree you should be suspicious I

992
00:38:43,910 --> 00:38:42,000
mean you should put the burden on them

993
00:38:45,950 --> 00:38:43,920
to prove that their degree is legitimate

994
00:38:49,130 --> 00:38:45,960
not on you to prove that it's not

995
00:38:51,950 --> 00:38:49,140
legitimate but if they can't provide you

996
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:51,960
know a verifiable institution that

997
00:38:55,430 --> 00:38:53,490
provided the degree and then you're

998
00:38:57,380 --> 00:38:55,440
depending on how you know important this

999
00:38:58,880 --> 00:38:57,390
is to you you could then follow up with

1000
00:39:00,260 --> 00:38:58,890
that institution to see did they really

1001
00:39:01,100 --> 00:39:00,270
get the degree because they'll just they

1002
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:01,110
could lie about

1003
00:39:05,210 --> 00:39:03,690
at as well so mean that vetting could be

1004
00:39:09,010 --> 00:39:05,220
either a couple of mouse clicks or a

1005
00:39:11,330 --> 00:39:09,020
phone call away you know for anybody

1006
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:11,340
depending on you know how many layers of

1007
00:39:15,110 --> 00:39:13,530
deception they're using to hide hide

1008
00:39:17,150 --> 00:39:15,120
their trail but certainly when like

1009
00:39:18,770 --> 00:39:17,160
journalists or whatever investigators

1010
00:39:21,260 --> 00:39:18,780
are or if I'm writing about an

1011
00:39:22,580 --> 00:39:21,270
individual you can find out if they're

1012
00:39:25,550 --> 00:39:22,590
if they're degrees or legitimate or not

1013
00:39:27,500 --> 00:39:25,560
yeah it's um it's kind of rubbing salt

1014
00:39:29,390 --> 00:39:27,510
in the wind for for me for example

1015
00:39:30,830 --> 00:39:29,400
because I actually do have a PhD and you

1016
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:30,840
can check on the University of Sydney

1017
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:33,810
website people it's there and to see

1018
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:35,370
these people just walking around saying

1019
00:39:39,350 --> 00:39:37,650
I'm dr. this and I'm dr. that and in

1020
00:39:41,570 --> 00:39:39,360
fact we know of one person who's not

1021
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:41,580
only a PhD but he has a doctor of

1022
00:39:48,530 --> 00:39:44,370
science as well which I think he awarded

1023
00:39:51,860 --> 00:39:48,540
himself from his own institutions right

1024
00:39:53,740 --> 00:39:51,870
my point is that it that's convenient it

1025
00:39:56,330 --> 00:39:53,750
is convenient isn't it and in fact I

1026
00:39:58,310 --> 00:39:56,340
tricked the chronological order of his

1027
00:40:01,580 --> 00:39:58,320
degrees and he got the doctor of science

1028
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:01,590
before he got the PhD which in academic

1029
00:40:05,330 --> 00:40:03,210
circles it's quite unusual that's

1030
00:40:07,580 --> 00:40:05,340
usually the other way around the problem

1031
00:40:11,420 --> 00:40:07,590
is worse in that there are now

1032
00:40:13,910 --> 00:40:11,430
recognized degrees that label somebody

1033
00:40:16,610 --> 00:40:13,920
to call themselves a doctor that have no

1034
00:40:18,140 --> 00:40:16,620
no have no external validity for example

1035
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:18,150
I'm not sure how much is translate over

1036
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:19,890
to Australia but in the United States we

1037
00:40:24,500 --> 00:40:23,010
have doctors of chiropractic we call

1038
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:24,510
themselves doctor when when they don't

1039
00:40:28,910 --> 00:40:27,210
have an equal degree and also now

1040
00:40:31,340 --> 00:40:28,920
naturopaths you know doctor of

1041
00:40:34,420 --> 00:40:31,350
naturopathic medicine which is you know

1042
00:40:36,710 --> 00:40:34,430
naturopathic a quote-unquote doctors

1043
00:40:40,670 --> 00:40:36,720
that's it naturopathy is just a

1044
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:40,680
collection of disparate sometimes

1045
00:40:45,860 --> 00:40:43,890
mutually exclusive pseudo-sciences it's

1046
00:40:48,290 --> 00:40:45,870
basically anything that's wrong anything

1047
00:40:50,330 --> 00:40:48,300
that gets to start discarded from

1048
00:40:53,270 --> 00:40:50,340
mainstream or scientific science they

1049
00:40:55,190 --> 00:40:53,280
pick up and make and weave into their

1050
00:40:57,380 --> 00:40:55,200
practice and they it's really mean

1051
00:40:59,780 --> 00:40:57,390
reading their articles in their texts is

1052
00:41:02,660 --> 00:40:59,790
like reading a fantasy novel I mean it

1053
00:41:04,010 --> 00:41:02,670
is just in craw dropping Lee incredible

1054
00:41:06,380 --> 00:41:04,020
that the notions that they come out with

1055
00:41:08,870 --> 00:41:06,390
just completely antithetical to just

1056
00:41:10,430 --> 00:41:08,880
basic biology forget about you know

1057
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:10,440
sophisticated medical research or

1058
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:11,850
whatnot they're just violating even

1059
00:41:15,050 --> 00:41:14,130
basic biology and they just weave all

1060
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:15,060
that into this

1061
00:41:21,230 --> 00:41:18,090
sort of vaguely FEMA the natural

1062
00:41:24,770 --> 00:41:21,240
treatment uh and but they now they have

1063
00:41:26,720 --> 00:41:24,780
Duke they can go to a college get a

1064
00:41:28,790 --> 00:41:26,730
degree in naturopathic medicine is

1065
00:41:30,140 --> 00:41:28,800
recognized in a number of states in the

1066
00:41:31,970 --> 00:41:30,150
United States and there they're slowly

1067
00:41:34,190 --> 00:41:31,980
you know working their way through state

1068
00:41:36,500 --> 00:41:34,200
legislatures getting getting recognition

1069
00:41:39,530 --> 00:41:36,510
how do you have naturopathy Nostra yeah

1070
00:41:41,570 --> 00:41:39,540
yes we do and it is a recognized degree

1071
00:41:43,790 --> 00:41:41,580
in fact it's about three years to do a

1072
00:41:45,770 --> 00:41:43,800
degree in naturopathy I'm not quite sure

1073
00:41:48,950 --> 00:41:45,780
what they do for that amount of time I

1074
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:48,960
haven't seen a curriculum structure I've

1075
00:41:51,950 --> 00:41:50,010
looked for one but I haven't found

1076
00:41:53,630 --> 00:41:51,960
anything but yeah we have them

1077
00:41:56,780 --> 00:41:53,640
unfortunately right well that just

1078
00:41:58,460 --> 00:41:56,790
confused like even further so it now

1079
00:42:00,740 --> 00:41:58,470
doesn't how is the public supposed to

1080
00:42:02,330 --> 00:42:00,750
know if this if the the government or

1081
00:42:05,300 --> 00:42:02,340
the state license is somebody and they

1082
00:42:07,730 --> 00:42:05,310
have a degree it doesn't necessarily

1083
00:42:10,430 --> 00:42:07,740
mean anything so it's something they're

1084
00:42:13,970 --> 00:42:10,440
not doing their job of protecting the

1085
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:13,980
public from fraud or you know we're

1086
00:42:18,260 --> 00:42:15,930
sharing at least a basic level of

1087
00:42:20,330 --> 00:42:18,270
legitimacy in health care providers so

1088
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:20,340
the public is left to fend for

1089
00:42:24,050 --> 00:42:22,290
themselves yeah well I'm not sure what

1090
00:42:25,820 --> 00:42:24,060
it's like with the FDA Steve but our

1091
00:42:29,090 --> 00:42:25,830
government body here is the Therapeutic

1092
00:42:31,670 --> 00:42:29,100
Goods Administration so the TGA and they

1093
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:31,680
actually you can list a product with

1094
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:33,450
them which then entitles it to go into

1095
00:42:38,330 --> 00:42:36,810
pharmacies or you know drugstores and it

1096
00:42:40,730 --> 00:42:38,340
gives the government will give it an

1097
00:42:42,740 --> 00:42:40,740
official-looking listing number and say

1098
00:42:45,020 --> 00:42:42,750
it's been approved by the Australian

1099
00:42:48,620 --> 00:42:45,030
Government but things like for example

1100
00:42:50,870 --> 00:42:48,630
ear candles you can buy in drugs here

1101
00:42:53,780 --> 00:42:50,880
homeopathy you can buy in drug stores

1102
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:53,790
from the perspective of someone from the

1103
00:42:57,800 --> 00:42:56,130
public it looks legitimate because the

1104
00:43:00,620 --> 00:42:57,810
government's approved it so it must work

1105
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:00,630
and it's being sold in drugs the

1106
00:43:05,270 --> 00:43:03,450
conventional science-based medicine yeah

1107
00:43:07,250 --> 00:43:05,280
it's malfeasance in my opinion that says

1108
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:07,260
the government completely filling the

1109
00:43:13,570 --> 00:43:09,810
public in the United States we do have

1110
00:43:16,700 --> 00:43:13,580
the FDA but we also have in 1994

1111
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:16,710
Congress you know again under the

1112
00:43:20,900 --> 00:43:18,450
auspices of a couple of true believers

1113
00:43:22,790 --> 00:43:20,910
passed the dietary supplement health and

1114
00:43:25,100 --> 00:43:22,800
education act of nineteen ninety-four

1115
00:43:26,270 --> 00:43:25,110
which removed basically all the things

1116
00:43:28,970 --> 00:43:26,280
that you're talking about all sort of

1117
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:28,980
supplements and herbs and vitamins

1118
00:43:34,430 --> 00:43:32,130
out of FDA control so that you could

1119
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:34,440
market it without having to provide any

1120
00:43:39,650 --> 00:43:36,570
previous evidence of safety or

1121
00:43:41,930 --> 00:43:39,660
effectiveness and they created this sort

1122
00:43:45,170 --> 00:43:41,940
of new category of health claims called

1123
00:43:47,180 --> 00:43:45,180
structure-function claims so right in

1124
00:43:49,490 --> 00:43:47,190
the US there's two worlds there's

1125
00:43:51,620 --> 00:43:49,500
diseases and if you claim to treat a

1126
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:51,630
disease then that's regulated as a drug

1127
00:43:54,980 --> 00:43:53,970
and the FDA has purview over that but

1128
00:43:57,530 --> 00:43:54,990
you could make these structure-function

1129
00:44:00,230 --> 00:43:57,540
claims without any without any oversight

1130
00:44:02,510 --> 00:44:00,240
or having to provide any evidence to

1131
00:44:04,300 --> 00:44:02,520
back up your claims and and those are

1132
00:44:07,750 --> 00:44:04,310
things like it boosts the immune system

1133
00:44:11,240 --> 00:44:07,760
or it enhances a positive mood or

1134
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:11,250
well-being or nutritional support or

1135
00:44:15,230 --> 00:44:13,650
whatever you know detoxifies when you

1136
00:44:17,870 --> 00:44:15,240
could use all these sort of pseudo

1137
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:17,880
health claims and if you're careful in

1138
00:44:20,630 --> 00:44:19,290
the wording and in the marketing you

1139
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:20,640
could make the claims you want to make

1140
00:44:25,790 --> 00:44:23,490
you just can't mention diseases by have

1141
00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:25,800
to be minimally clever to evade the

1142
00:44:28,820 --> 00:44:27,090
regulation and you got to put a

1143
00:44:31,460 --> 00:44:28,830
disclaimer yes you know these claims

1144
00:44:33,140 --> 00:44:31,470
have not viewed by the FDA but half the

1145
00:44:35,210 --> 00:44:33,150
time they don't do even do that minimal

1146
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:35,220
requirement the bottom line is to unless

1147
00:44:39,590 --> 00:44:37,530
you're you know fairly savvy about

1148
00:44:41,660 --> 00:44:39,600
what's going on do to them to the most

1149
00:44:43,099 --> 00:44:41,670
of the public at large the companies are

1150
00:44:46,790 --> 00:44:43,109
able to make the claims they want to

1151
00:44:48,590 --> 00:44:46,800
make and easily comport with the very

1152
00:44:50,210 --> 00:44:48,600
very deliberately loose regulations and

1153
00:44:52,609 --> 00:44:50,220
this has led to an explosion of the

1154
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:52,619
supplement industry in this country so

1155
00:44:58,130 --> 00:44:54,330
now the public is is having to wade

1156
00:45:00,320 --> 00:44:58,140
through tremendous dubious claims that

1157
00:45:02,300 --> 00:45:00,330
you know when they the ones that the few

1158
00:45:04,359 --> 00:45:02,310
that do get investigated almost always

1159
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:04,369
turn out to be incorrect or fraudulent

1160
00:45:10,250 --> 00:45:07,970
and it's a multi-billion dollar industry

1161
00:45:12,140 --> 00:45:10,260
yeah we have the same thing here where

1162
00:45:15,340 --> 00:45:12,150
you can't make claims on the product but

1163
00:45:18,590 --> 00:45:15,350
you can say may assist with or may help

1164
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:18,600
you can't say it kills anything but the

1165
00:45:21,530 --> 00:45:19,770
other thing we have here and I don't

1166
00:45:23,150 --> 00:45:21,540
know if you have the same as we have in

1167
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:23,160
most of our pharmacies we have

1168
00:45:28,220 --> 00:45:25,890
consulting iridology and naturopaths and

1169
00:45:30,740 --> 00:45:28,230
you can go and see them for free and

1170
00:45:32,359 --> 00:45:30,750
i'll give you some pharmacies I haven't

1171
00:45:34,130 --> 00:45:32,369
seen now they either you could there's

1172
00:45:35,900 --> 00:45:34,140
throughly homeopathic remedies and

1173
00:45:38,780 --> 00:45:35,910
whatnot in pharmacies and in drug stores

1174
00:45:42,170 --> 00:45:38,790
and supermarkets and then we have

1175
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:42,180
separate it's like boutique nutrition

1176
00:45:44,690 --> 00:45:42,810
stores

1177
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:44,700
the selling vitamins and minerals they

1178
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:48,810
they will often have the iridology store

1179
00:45:53,950 --> 00:45:51,650
what whoever there but pharmacies

1180
00:45:55,940 --> 00:45:53,960
generally don't have these

1181
00:45:57,860 --> 00:45:55,950
paraprofessionals they're basically run

1182
00:45:59,870 --> 00:45:57,870
by pharmacists one of the things with

1183
00:46:03,350 --> 00:45:59,880
people who are not particularly science

1184
00:46:05,510 --> 00:46:03,360
educated if they try one of these on cam

1185
00:46:07,010 --> 00:46:05,520
therapies and they they claim it works

1186
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:07,020
they'll say to you well it works for me

1187
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:08,850
therefore it works you know they have a

1188
00:46:12,500 --> 00:46:10,650
story I will I had an ear infection and

1189
00:46:14,060 --> 00:46:12,510
I was taking conventional drugs and it

1190
00:46:15,980 --> 00:46:14,070
didn't help and then I put an ear candle

1191
00:46:19,220 --> 00:46:15,990
in my ear and it cleared up so it worked

1192
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:19,230
and the problem is how can you or can

1193
00:46:23,570 --> 00:46:21,330
you even explain to them that that's not

1194
00:46:25,490 --> 00:46:23,580
the case isn't even worth trying to

1195
00:46:27,140 --> 00:46:25,500
explain to those people oh it's worth

1196
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:27,150
trying to explain it I never get up on

1197
00:46:32,180 --> 00:46:28,770
people ahead of time but it is very very

1198
00:46:34,550 --> 00:46:32,190
very difficult you have to explain some

1199
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:34,560
concepts of you know how we know what we

1200
00:46:39,470 --> 00:46:36,450
know and how easy it is for people to be

1201
00:46:41,210 --> 00:46:39,480
deceived by the things with you so what

1202
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:41,220
you're talking about is sort of the Post

1203
00:46:45,470 --> 00:46:43,290
hoc ergo propter hoc logical fallacy you

1204
00:46:46,790 --> 00:46:45,480
know I was sick I took this treatment I

1205
00:46:48,140 --> 00:46:46,800
got better there for the treatment made

1206
00:46:49,730 --> 00:46:48,150
me better well you don't know what would

1207
00:46:52,610 --> 00:46:49,740
happen if you didn't treatment it's not

1208
00:46:54,830 --> 00:46:52,620
a controlled situation there's also the

1209
00:46:58,270 --> 00:46:54,840
placebo effect which is a very confusing

1210
00:47:01,120 --> 00:46:58,280
concept it's been extremely confused

1211
00:47:03,860 --> 00:47:01,130
it's especially by cam proponents as

1212
00:47:05,390 --> 00:47:03,870
most people think of it as the belief in

1213
00:47:08,510 --> 00:47:05,400
the treatment leads to a real

1214
00:47:11,870 --> 00:47:08,520
physiological effect and that in fact is

1215
00:47:13,790 --> 00:47:11,880
not the case that the quote unquote V

1216
00:47:15,650 --> 00:47:13,800
placebo effect is actually many many

1217
00:47:18,140 --> 00:47:15,660
many different effects it's everything

1218
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:18,150
other than a physiological response to

1219
00:47:25,660 --> 00:47:22,290
an active treatment so that includes a

1220
00:47:29,450 --> 00:47:25,670
host of psychological factors you know

1221
00:47:31,850 --> 00:47:29,460
misperception biased memory confirmation

1222
00:47:33,530 --> 00:47:31,860
bias as well as the fact that there's

1223
00:47:36,980 --> 00:47:33,540
other variables if you're if you're

1224
00:47:39,980 --> 00:47:36,990
doing one thing to treat yourself you're

1225
00:47:42,830 --> 00:47:39,990
probably doing other things as well that

1226
00:47:45,470 --> 00:47:42,840
may be helping there's the need to

1227
00:47:47,510 --> 00:47:45,480
justify your beliefs or the fact that

1228
00:47:49,130 --> 00:47:47,520
you've invested in a treatment there's

1229
00:47:51,220 --> 00:47:49,140
the hope that you want treatments to

1230
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:51,230
work so there's a lot of factors at work

1231
00:47:56,090 --> 00:47:54,090
that lead to a subjective sense that

1232
00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:56,100
that the treatments are effective even

1233
00:47:59,210 --> 00:47:56,610
when

1234
00:48:00,740 --> 00:47:59,220
by any objective measures happened the

1235
00:48:03,380 --> 00:48:00,750
disease took the course that it takes

1236
00:48:04,850 --> 00:48:03,390
any way or the function of whatever is

1237
00:48:07,610 --> 00:48:04,860
being measured did not improve in any

1238
00:48:09,410 --> 00:48:07,620
way survival did not improve but people

1239
00:48:11,540 --> 00:48:09,420
still say they quote unquote feel better

1240
00:48:13,580 --> 00:48:11,550
and you know to them it's very

1241
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:13,590
compelling it to convince people that

1242
00:48:20,060 --> 00:48:16,050
even that your own subjective experience

1243
00:48:21,890 --> 00:48:20,070
is misleading it takes a certain level

1244
00:48:23,270 --> 00:48:21,900
of skepticism to really appreciate that

1245
00:48:25,850 --> 00:48:23,280
and that's probably the hardest thing

1246
00:48:28,220 --> 00:48:25,860
that we deal with is you know trying to

1247
00:48:30,890 --> 00:48:28,230
convince people that your own personal

1248
00:48:33,230 --> 00:48:30,900
experience can actually be deceiving and

1249
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:33,240
you can't rely upon it that we have to

1250
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:35,850
trust you know these abstract numbers

1251
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:39,090
that were generated by a study and not

1252
00:48:44,750 --> 00:48:43,170
your actual own experience but mean the

1253
00:48:47,060 --> 00:48:44,760
history clearly demonstrates that

1254
00:48:48,710 --> 00:48:47,070
personal experience is worse than

1255
00:48:51,350 --> 00:48:48,720
worthless in most cases it's misleading

1256
00:48:53,060 --> 00:48:51,360
again you go back to 100 years ago when

1257
00:48:54,470 --> 00:48:53,070
people were drinking radioactive tonics

1258
00:48:56,150 --> 00:48:54,480
well they thought they felt better for

1259
00:48:57,770 --> 00:48:56,160
two you know they thought that that was

1260
00:48:59,480 --> 00:48:57,780
the greatest thing and that they had

1261
00:49:02,030 --> 00:48:59,490
more energy and vitality all the while

1262
00:49:05,690 --> 00:49:02,040
they were slowly killing themselves yes

1263
00:49:07,670 --> 00:49:05,700
and in fact if rate if it was it weren't

1264
00:49:09,860 --> 00:49:07,680
discovered if radioactivity were let's

1265
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:09,870
say we're harmless rather than then

1266
00:49:14,720 --> 00:49:12,330
actually harm full it probably would

1267
00:49:16,430 --> 00:49:14,730
still be around today as a tonic you

1268
00:49:18,290 --> 00:49:16,440
know these things never go away entirely

1269
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:18,300
the only reason why it mean there's in

1270
00:49:22,250 --> 00:49:19,890
get this country the FDA had to actually

1271
00:49:24,020 --> 00:49:22,260
step in and ban radioactive times even

1272
00:49:26,300 --> 00:49:24,030
as late as the 1940s people were still

1273
00:49:30,020 --> 00:49:26,310
believing in it they had to actually ban

1274
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:30,030
it but you know the Hiroshi Mundson of

1275
00:49:34,430 --> 00:49:31,890
the change in cultural ideas about the

1276
00:49:36,710 --> 00:49:34,440
dangers of of radiant radioactivity was

1277
00:49:38,660 --> 00:49:36,720
really what killed radioactive tonics

1278
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:38,670
but here you have you know countless

1279
00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:40,890
people who absolutely believe that it

1280
00:49:45,170 --> 00:49:42,930
was helping them so they were totally

1281
00:49:47,870 --> 00:49:45,180
wrong they were profoundly demonstrably

1282
00:49:49,490 --> 00:49:47,880
wrong so you have to extrapolate that to

1283
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:49,500
yourself and to everybody else if they

1284
00:49:55,460 --> 00:49:52,290
can be that wrong then anybody could be

1285
00:49:57,890 --> 00:49:55,470
wrong about any subjective experience of

1286
00:49:59,480 --> 00:49:57,900
their own treatment but we have this

1287
00:50:02,000 --> 00:49:59,490
sort of psychological effect where we

1288
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:02,010
think we're like immune psychological

1289
00:50:05,810 --> 00:50:04,050
factors that affect everybody else in

1290
00:50:08,030 --> 00:50:05,820
the world that where everyone thinks

1291
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:08,040
they're special in that guard oh yeah

1292
00:50:10,550 --> 00:50:09,810
other people can be deceived by this but

1293
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:10,560
not me

1294
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:13,410
they experience yeah no wrong you're a

1295
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:14,610
human you got the same brain as

1296
00:50:17,780 --> 00:50:16,050
everybody else you could be deceived we

1297
00:50:20,060 --> 00:50:17,790
all could be deceived I could be if it's

1298
00:50:22,490 --> 00:50:20,070
just it's just human nature it's the

1299
00:50:24,290 --> 00:50:22,500
same concept as some people saying oh I

1300
00:50:26,900 --> 00:50:24,300
know there are fraudulent psychics out

1301
00:50:29,210 --> 00:50:26,910
there but mines real mines mines fine

1302
00:50:30,860 --> 00:50:29,220
it's just everybody every all the rest

1303
00:50:33,170 --> 00:50:30,870
of them are fraudulent and doing cold

1304
00:50:35,900 --> 00:50:33,180
reading but mine is absolutely spot-on

1305
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:35,910
you know they don't know all those odds

1306
00:50:40,970 --> 00:50:38,490
like maybe frauds but not mine not mine

1307
00:50:43,130 --> 00:50:40,980
young yeah you mentioned side effects

1308
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:43,140
just before and I recently had an

1309
00:50:47,720 --> 00:50:45,330
exchange by email with someone about

1310
00:50:50,810 --> 00:50:47,730
homeopathy which is one of my favorite

1311
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:50,820
pants and his his point was well

1312
00:50:54,770 --> 00:50:52,770
obviously homeopathy is safer because

1313
00:50:56,930 --> 00:50:54,780
there are no side effects whereas

1314
00:50:58,820 --> 00:50:56,940
Orthodox conventional medicine has side

1315
00:51:01,280 --> 00:50:58,830
effects now I'm wondering if you can

1316
00:51:02,720 --> 00:51:01,290
just explain to the listeners why it is

1317
00:51:05,090 --> 00:51:02,730
that there are no side effects with

1318
00:51:06,740 --> 00:51:05,100
homeopathy and what it means when you

1319
00:51:08,450 --> 00:51:06,750
get side effects with conventional drugs

1320
00:51:11,330 --> 00:51:08,460
in other words it means that you're

1321
00:51:12,770 --> 00:51:11,340
getting an effect right so there's no

1322
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:12,780
side effects from homeopathy because

1323
00:51:18,350 --> 00:51:16,050
there's no effects exactly no

1324
00:51:20,420 --> 00:51:18,360
physiological effects the difference

1325
00:51:21,830 --> 00:51:20,430
between a beneficial in effect a

1326
00:51:23,690 --> 00:51:21,840
beneficial effect in a side effect is

1327
00:51:25,670 --> 00:51:23,700
really just all context it's what's the

1328
00:51:27,890 --> 00:51:25,680
effect that you're trying to get at an

1329
00:51:30,380 --> 00:51:27,900
intervention and in the proper clinical

1330
00:51:32,630 --> 00:51:30,390
context some effects are desirable for

1331
00:51:34,580 --> 00:51:32,640
example if you're taking a drug to help

1332
00:51:37,370 --> 00:51:34,590
you fall asleep at night it has a

1333
00:51:39,830 --> 00:51:37,380
sedating effect that sedating effect is

1334
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:39,840
the desired effect of that drug but if

1335
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:42,450
you're taking a drug for pain and you

1336
00:51:46,220 --> 00:51:43,890
want to be functional at work us

1337
00:51:49,130 --> 00:51:46,230
sedating effect is it unwanted side

1338
00:51:50,150 --> 00:51:49,140
effect it's just the context of what

1339
00:51:51,830 --> 00:51:50,160
you're trying to get out of it there's

1340
00:51:54,980 --> 00:51:51,840
also this concept of a therapeutic range

1341
00:51:58,130 --> 00:51:54,990
that when we r you know developing drugs

1342
00:52:02,150 --> 00:51:58,140
we're looking for a chemical that will

1343
00:52:05,390 --> 00:52:02,160
have a dosing range in which we will get

1344
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:05,400
a desired effect while undesired effects

1345
00:52:11,180 --> 00:52:08,490
will be mineral minimal or tolerable and

1346
00:52:14,630 --> 00:52:11,190
then and there won't be or the chance of

1347
00:52:17,390 --> 00:52:14,640
any toxic effect is extremely minimal

1348
00:52:20,210 --> 00:52:17,400
and there's certain you know testing

1349
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:20,220
that is a standard to go through to

1350
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:22,050
ensure that there's this safe

1351
00:52:25,370 --> 00:52:24,210
therapeutic range for four

1352
00:52:26,900 --> 00:52:25,380
treatment because anything that has a

1353
00:52:29,810 --> 00:52:26,910
physiological effect on the body is

1354
00:52:32,270 --> 00:52:29,820
going to have a host of effects you know

1355
00:52:34,010 --> 00:52:32,280
we're always trying to get the effects

1356
00:52:36,140 --> 00:52:34,020
more and more specific but there's no

1357
00:52:38,300 --> 00:52:36,150
quote-unquote silver bullet or magic

1358
00:52:40,970 --> 00:52:38,310
bullet that has just the precise effect

1359
00:52:41,900 --> 00:52:40,980
that we want and no other effects that's

1360
00:52:43,220 --> 00:52:41,910
we're just not that's just a

1361
00:52:45,859 --> 00:52:43,230
technological thing which is not at that

1362
00:52:48,380 --> 00:52:45,869
level of technology and sometimes it's

1363
00:52:50,780 --> 00:52:48,390
just not possible i mean the body is a

1364
00:52:54,620 --> 00:52:50,790
complex evolved system you know so we

1365
00:52:57,140 --> 00:52:54,630
have for example you know one cell type

1366
00:52:59,570 --> 00:52:57,150
of receptor type may be evolutionarily

1367
00:53:02,230 --> 00:52:59,580
closely related to another that does

1368
00:53:05,690 --> 00:53:02,240
serves another purpose in the body so

1369
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:05,700
when you make a drug to interact with

1370
00:53:08,810 --> 00:53:07,050
one receptor it's going to have some

1371
00:53:09,950 --> 00:53:08,820
effect on the other one as well even

1372
00:53:11,450 --> 00:53:09,960
though it's not the effect that you're

1373
00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:11,460
going for so they may be to some

1374
00:53:15,710 --> 00:53:13,170
inherent biological limitations on how

1375
00:53:18,980 --> 00:53:15,720
specific we can get in our effects as

1376
00:53:21,230 --> 00:53:18,990
well but homeopathy you asked about has

1377
00:53:23,750 --> 00:53:21,240
no effect or side effects because it's

1378
00:53:27,079 --> 00:53:23,760
literally nothing letters doing there

1379
00:53:29,510 --> 00:53:27,089
there yeah it's a little tough oh so

1380
00:53:31,730 --> 00:53:29,520
that's water it's sugar pulse yeah its

1381
00:53:34,730 --> 00:53:31,740
water placed upon a sugar pill so they

1382
00:53:37,910 --> 00:53:34,740
one of the concepts of homeopathy is the

1383
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:37,920
so-called law of infinitesimal it's not

1384
00:53:43,310 --> 00:53:39,810
really a lot just something that Samuel

1385
00:53:45,140 --> 00:53:43,320
Hahnemann made up that says it's not it

1386
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:45,150
hasn't been validated or verify 200

1387
00:53:49,130 --> 00:53:46,770
years of science has not found that it

1388
00:53:50,660 --> 00:53:49,140
actually exists in nature that it's

1389
00:53:52,910 --> 00:53:50,670
describing anything real in the world

1390
00:53:55,070 --> 00:53:52,920
it's just sucks this idea that Hana man

1391
00:53:58,220 --> 00:53:55,080
made up a couple hundred years ago that

1392
00:54:00,980 --> 00:53:58,230
the more you dilute a substance the more

1393
00:54:03,589 --> 00:54:00,990
powerful it becomes and that sounds

1394
00:54:05,540 --> 00:54:03,599
counterintuitive because it is because

1395
00:54:10,220 --> 00:54:05,550
it's not correct it's not an accurate

1396
00:54:11,900 --> 00:54:10,230
description of reality so yeah device

1397
00:54:14,750 --> 00:54:11,910
laws of science physics chemistry and

1398
00:54:16,790 --> 00:54:14,760
common-sense reason this time what

1399
00:54:19,820 --> 00:54:16,800
comment says does not always align with

1400
00:54:21,740 --> 00:54:19,830
reality but in this case it does so in

1401
00:54:23,060 --> 00:54:21,750
fact it's worse than just the notion

1402
00:54:25,940 --> 00:54:23,070
that the more you dilute something more

1403
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:25,950
powerful it becomes even though the

1404
00:54:30,410 --> 00:54:28,170
notion of Avogadro's number was known at

1405
00:54:33,050 --> 00:54:30,420
the time of Hanuman either he he

1406
00:54:36,050 --> 00:54:33,060
personally didn't know about or did it

1407
00:54:38,030 --> 00:54:36,060
was relevant to his his scheme that when

1408
00:54:40,190 --> 00:54:38,040
you dilute past a certain point

1409
00:54:42,500 --> 00:54:40,200
there's a you know statistically no

1410
00:54:45,170 --> 00:54:42,510
active ingredient left zero not a single

1411
00:54:47,150 --> 00:54:45,180
molecule of whatever it is you started

1412
00:54:49,450 --> 00:54:47,160
out with is left so there's literally

1413
00:54:51,890 --> 00:54:49,460
nothing left there's nothing left behind

1414
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:51,900
how that can't possibly have any

1415
00:54:57,410 --> 00:54:55,290
physiological effect there's a couple of

1416
00:54:58,700 --> 00:54:57,420
others are the magical beliefs woven

1417
00:55:00,710 --> 00:54:58,710
into homeopathy one is the law of

1418
00:55:02,630 --> 00:55:00,720
similars that like cures leak and that's

1419
00:55:05,570 --> 00:55:02,640
just sympathetic magic that's just plain

1420
00:55:08,030 --> 00:55:05,580
old superstition sympathetic you know

1421
00:55:11,720 --> 00:55:08,040
you grind up a rhinoceros horn and take

1422
00:55:13,190 --> 00:55:11,730
that to enhance male sexuality because

1423
00:55:15,380 --> 00:55:13,200
the horn looks like an erect penis

1424
00:55:16,490 --> 00:55:15,390
that's about the level of logic that

1425
00:55:18,350 --> 00:55:16,500
we're dealing with it's just it looks

1426
00:55:20,810 --> 00:55:18,360
like it therefore or it's similar to it

1427
00:55:23,870 --> 00:55:20,820
therefore it has some desired effect um

1428
00:55:25,610 --> 00:55:23,880
and then there's the other component of

1429
00:55:28,070 --> 00:55:25,620
it that you have to shake the remedy in

1430
00:55:29,630 --> 00:55:28,080
betwee dilution like 10 times in each of

1431
00:55:30,830 --> 00:55:29,640
the three planes and that's just ritual

1432
00:55:33,260 --> 00:55:30,840
magic you know it's just going through

1433
00:55:35,780 --> 00:55:33,270
some nonsensical ritual that's it is

1434
00:55:37,340 --> 00:55:35,790
that's a homeopathy is this the caution

1435
00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:37,350
though is that to instill the memory of

1436
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:40,050
the active ingredient into the water

1437
00:55:43,790 --> 00:55:41,850
because they did talk about the water

1438
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:43,800
having a memory don't they yeah but

1439
00:55:48,230 --> 00:55:46,290
that's a very new or recent concept

1440
00:55:49,730 --> 00:55:48,240
hatem and never wrote or talked about

1441
00:55:51,580 --> 00:55:49,740
water member that is the kind of thing

1442
00:55:53,870 --> 00:55:51,590
that so that's a very recent

1443
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:53,880
rationalization to try to again lend

1444
00:55:58,580 --> 00:55:56,010
some scientific jargon to this

1445
00:56:01,640 --> 00:55:58,590
nonsensical notion homeopathy and this

1446
00:56:04,220 --> 00:56:01,650
is the equally absurd notion that water

1447
00:56:06,770 --> 00:56:04,230
molecules can retain the quote-unquote

1448
00:56:09,290 --> 00:56:06,780
memory of more complex molecules that

1449
00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:09,300
were previously diluted in it and but

1450
00:56:14,300 --> 00:56:12,090
there's no known you know mechanism of

1451
00:56:17,050 --> 00:56:14,310
physics or chemistry that can make that

1452
00:56:18,980 --> 00:56:17,060
happen studies that you know people

1453
00:56:20,900 --> 00:56:18,990
homeopaths and others trying to

1454
00:56:23,540 --> 00:56:20,910
demonstrate this effect a bit unable to

1455
00:56:26,090 --> 00:56:23,550
do so you know water is a liquid it's

1456
00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:26,100
fluid you know in the molecules even

1457
00:56:29,750 --> 00:56:27,570
though there may be some you know

1458
00:56:32,210 --> 00:56:29,760
transient relationships among the water

1459
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:32,220
molecules they're extremely extremely

1460
00:56:36,890 --> 00:56:34,770
fleeting they certainly will not survive

1461
00:56:39,290 --> 00:56:36,900
for any long period of time they

1462
00:56:42,350 --> 00:56:39,300
wouldn't survive being you know

1463
00:56:44,180 --> 00:56:42,360
dissolved on a sugar pill eaten absorbed

1464
00:56:46,550 --> 00:56:44,190
into the bloodstream and getting to

1465
00:56:48,350 --> 00:56:46,560
whatever target in the body where

1466
00:56:51,950 --> 00:56:48,360
they're having their their action it's

1467
00:56:54,349 --> 00:56:51,960
really just explaining one bit of non

1468
00:56:56,329 --> 00:56:54,359
with an even more absurd bit of nonsense

1469
00:56:58,640 --> 00:56:56,339
there's zero science to it but it's not

1470
00:57:02,150 --> 00:56:58,650
about the signs to the homeopath it's

1471
00:57:05,510 --> 00:57:02,160
about using nonsensical scientific

1472
00:57:07,790 --> 00:57:05,520
jargon as plausible cover for the masses

1473
00:57:09,710 --> 00:57:07,800
that's what that's what about actually

1474
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:09,720
it seems to me that water is that is the

1475
00:57:15,740 --> 00:57:13,130
new buzz can but the recent mind body

1476
00:57:18,500 --> 00:57:15,750
spirit that I went to everyone's selling

1477
00:57:20,599 --> 00:57:18,510
alkaline water these days or ionized

1478
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:20,609
water and telling you that it will

1479
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:22,770
replace minerals in your body and you'll

1480
00:57:26,870 --> 00:57:25,050
absorb it better and I tried to point

1481
00:57:28,849 --> 00:57:26,880
out to one of these people that if you

1482
00:57:32,359 --> 00:57:28,859
drink alkaline water it goes into your

1483
00:57:34,430 --> 00:57:32,369
gut which is pH to approximately and

1484
00:57:37,190 --> 00:57:34,440
that's no longer alkaline they didn't

1485
00:57:39,320 --> 00:57:37,200
want to hear about that right yeah don't

1486
00:57:42,140 --> 00:57:39,330
confuse him with this come on all right

1487
00:57:44,420 --> 00:57:42,150
sorry maybe that's the whole acid-base

1488
00:57:47,180 --> 00:57:44,430
thing is ridiculous I mean that our

1489
00:57:49,820 --> 00:57:47,190
bodies have very elaborate evolved

1490
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:49,830
mechanisms to keep the pH of our tissue

1491
00:57:55,640 --> 00:57:51,530
and our blood in a very very narrow

1492
00:57:58,070 --> 00:57:55,650
optimal range and you have to drink

1493
00:58:00,650 --> 00:57:58,080
poison you know or really do something

1494
00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:00,660
extreme physiologically to overwhelm our

1495
00:58:04,370 --> 00:58:02,970
mechanism maintaining our own body pH so

1496
00:58:06,050 --> 00:58:04,380
any you know just drinking alkaline

1497
00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:06,060
water as you say first of all just mixes

1498
00:58:09,950 --> 00:58:07,650
with the acid in your stomach and it

1499
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:09,960
doesn't have any effect on your body pH

1500
00:58:14,300 --> 00:58:12,930
but the water thing is that's one of

1501
00:58:16,370 --> 00:58:14,310
that's actually been around for a very

1502
00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:16,380
long time the concept of using water as

1503
00:58:21,290 --> 00:58:18,450
a healing mechanism that actually goes

1504
00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:21,300
way back to like just the original spas

1505
00:58:26,510 --> 00:58:24,450
where mineral water and and then later

1506
00:58:29,690 --> 00:58:26,520
carbonated water was given as a healthy

1507
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:29,700
tonic and in fact that this soda pop

1508
00:58:35,829 --> 00:58:31,890
that we drink today essentially evolved

1509
00:58:38,089 --> 00:58:35,839
out of that tradition of a spas and

1510
00:58:40,820 --> 00:58:38,099
mineral a carbonated water spots that's

1511
00:58:43,339 --> 00:58:40,830
why you know many of the the popular

1512
00:58:45,950 --> 00:58:43,349
drinks have herbal type names like

1513
00:58:47,950 --> 00:58:45,960
ginger era el root beer even you know

1514
00:58:50,780 --> 00:58:47,960
coca-cola these are these are all

1515
00:58:53,540 --> 00:58:50,790
initially where health tonics no that's

1516
00:58:56,359 --> 00:58:53,550
not beverages they only became beverages

1517
00:59:00,079 --> 00:58:56,369
after refrigeration was invented and

1518
00:59:01,570 --> 00:59:00,089
then they tasted better right so just to

1519
00:59:03,890 --> 00:59:01,580
change the subject a little bit Steve

1520
00:59:05,930 --> 00:59:03,900
congratulations on your new president

1521
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:05,940
elect we're all very happy about that

1522
00:59:10,370 --> 00:59:08,010
and it looks like this might be good for

1523
00:59:12,319 --> 00:59:10,380
science the Democrats seem to be a bit

1524
00:59:14,690 --> 00:59:12,329
more science friendly than the

1525
00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:14,700
Republicans and I believe Barack Obama

1526
00:59:20,020 --> 00:59:16,890
in one of his speeches said that he

1527
00:59:22,550 --> 00:59:20,030
wants to double the funding to the NIH

1528
00:59:24,470 --> 00:59:22,560
is it the case do you think it's going

1529
00:59:25,130 --> 00:59:24,480
to be good for science well I think it

1530
00:59:26,990 --> 00:59:25,140
would be better than the last

1531
00:59:29,660 --> 00:59:27,000
administration and the Bush

1532
00:59:31,540 --> 00:59:29,670
administration has the one thing that

1533
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:31,550
they have done that has really

1534
00:59:38,780 --> 00:59:33,930
aggravated the scientific community is

1535
00:59:41,329 --> 00:59:38,790
subvert the integrity of science as a

1536
00:59:43,190 --> 00:59:41,339
way of informing government now no one

1537
00:59:44,599 --> 00:59:43,200
thinks that scientists should be running

1538
00:59:47,510 --> 00:59:44,609
the government or should be setting

1539
00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:47,520
policy and even policies that have a lot

1540
00:59:51,410 --> 00:59:49,050
to do with science or not determined

1541
00:59:54,890 --> 00:59:51,420
entirely by scientific information

1542
00:59:58,130 --> 00:59:54,900
itself you still have to make value

1543
00:59:59,630 --> 00:59:58,140
judgments allocate resources etc there's

1544
01:00:01,700 --> 00:59:59,640
lots of other issues that come into play

1545
01:00:05,210 --> 01:00:01,710
that make it just put a political

1546
01:00:07,069 --> 01:00:05,220
process but but but everyone agrees you

1547
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:07,079
know the most reasonable people agree

1548
01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:10,410
that that accurate unbiased science

1549
01:00:15,380 --> 01:00:13,290
should inform government or policy

1550
01:00:17,540 --> 01:00:15,390
decisions and that you shouldn't go

1551
01:00:19,160 --> 01:00:17,550
backwards which seems what the British

1552
01:00:22,250 --> 01:00:19,170
administration true was trying to do is

1553
01:00:24,910 --> 01:00:22,260
start with the policy that they want and

1554
01:00:28,099 --> 01:00:24,920
then try to backfill the science or

1555
01:00:31,450 --> 01:00:28,109
subvert the science to that ideology or

1556
01:00:34,910 --> 01:00:31,460
to their policy agenda and they really

1557
01:00:37,910 --> 01:00:34,920
significantly downgraded the role that

1558
01:00:40,220 --> 01:00:37,920
science advisors play in you know the

1559
01:00:41,450 --> 01:00:40,230
creation of policy in both the

1560
01:00:43,339 --> 01:00:41,460
legislative and executive branch

1561
01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:43,349
actually is is happening over over the

1562
01:00:46,790 --> 01:00:45,450
last eight years and now and that was

1563
01:00:49,910 --> 01:00:46,800
happening at a time obviously when the

1564
01:00:51,620 --> 01:00:49,920
Republicans were in power and you know

1565
01:00:53,480 --> 01:00:51,630
there were certain specific issues where

1566
01:00:54,950 --> 01:00:53,490
you know they didn't like what the

1567
01:00:57,020 --> 01:00:54,960
science was saying so they had a

1568
01:00:59,809 --> 01:00:57,030
separate agenda like a global warming

1569
01:01:00,890 --> 01:00:59,819
for so that sort of earned them the

1570
01:01:02,660 --> 01:01:00,900
reputation and you know as you know

1571
01:01:05,089 --> 01:01:02,670
chris mooney in fact wrote the book the

1572
01:01:07,099 --> 01:01:05,099
republican war on science which pretty

1573
01:01:09,890 --> 01:01:07,109
much says that flat out that's what they

1574
01:01:12,050 --> 01:01:09,900
think is going on taking a broader view

1575
01:01:15,319 --> 01:01:12,060
i don't think that that is an issue that

1576
01:01:17,450 --> 01:01:15,329
is unique to conservatives or two

1577
01:01:19,670 --> 01:01:17,460
republicans i think that all ideologies

1578
01:01:19,910 --> 01:01:19,680
tend to do that certainly both sides of

1579
01:01:22,520 --> 01:01:19,920
the

1580
01:01:26,240 --> 01:01:22,530
spectrum in this country have to varying

1581
01:01:29,930 --> 01:01:26,250
degrees both candidates McCain and Obama

1582
01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:29,940
vowed in there quite the responses to

1583
01:01:34,030 --> 01:01:31,770
the science 2008 questions that were

1584
01:01:36,110 --> 01:01:34,040
posed to them and on the campaign trail

1585
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:36,120
distanced themselves from the bush

1586
01:01:39,920 --> 01:01:38,010
policy they both promised more funding

1587
01:01:42,290 --> 01:01:39,930
for NASA more funding for you know for

1588
01:01:44,930 --> 01:01:42,300
research more support for scientific

1589
01:01:48,050 --> 01:01:44,940
ation restoring the integrity of science

1590
01:01:49,430 --> 01:01:48,060
so they both work we're saying the same

1591
01:01:50,900 --> 01:01:49,440
kind of thing so I think that we were

1592
01:01:53,690 --> 01:01:50,910
going to be moving away from the bush

1593
01:01:57,680 --> 01:01:53,700
policy and the bush would a way of

1594
01:01:59,720 --> 01:01:57,690
dealing with science regardless but it

1595
01:02:01,160 --> 01:01:59,730
certainly is much more of a significant

1596
01:02:03,410 --> 01:02:01,170
and clean break by switching to the

1597
01:02:06,790 --> 01:02:03,420
other political partying and we'll see

1598
01:02:11,890 --> 01:02:06,800
although I was yesterday I was handed a

1599
01:02:13,370 --> 01:02:11,900
letter written by Barack Obama to

1600
01:02:16,430 --> 01:02:13,380
chiropractors in the United States

1601
01:02:18,260 --> 01:02:16,440
promising to integrate more chiropractic

1602
01:02:20,330 --> 01:02:18,270
care into the Veterans Affairs system

1603
01:02:24,380 --> 01:02:20,340
and 22 into the health care system

1604
01:02:27,680 --> 01:02:24,390
general so good nice that's not good

1605
01:02:29,990 --> 01:02:27,690
news so then the alternative medicine is

1606
01:02:32,720 --> 01:02:30,000
the one area that we're pseudoscience

1607
01:02:33,860 --> 01:02:32,730
has found bipartisan support in this

1608
01:02:35,870 --> 01:02:33,870
country they really know how to work

1609
01:02:38,090 --> 01:02:35,880
both sides of the aisle extremely well I

1610
01:02:39,590 --> 01:02:38,100
haven't seen an advantage to one side or

1611
01:02:43,040 --> 01:02:39,600
the other it's just you just deal with

1612
01:02:45,260 --> 01:02:43,050
different issues one side of them you've

1613
01:02:46,670 --> 01:02:45,270
got you've got Oprah as well and she's

1614
01:02:48,620 --> 01:02:46,680
the most powerful person in the country

1615
01:02:50,570 --> 01:02:48,630
isn't she I mean when she endorses

1616
01:02:54,170 --> 01:02:50,580
something like Jenny McCarthy everyone

1617
01:02:56,360 --> 01:02:54,180
believes it so she certainly is a media

1618
01:02:59,060 --> 01:02:56,370
powerhouse and that gives her a

1619
01:03:00,440 --> 01:02:59,070
tremendous amount of power but if you're

1620
01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:00,450
if you're a buzz on Oprah's Book Club

1621
01:03:03,290 --> 01:03:02,010
and it's an instant bestseller I mean

1622
01:03:05,570 --> 01:03:03,300
that's that's the kind of power that she

1623
01:03:07,460 --> 01:03:05,580
has and unfortunately she has chosen to

1624
01:03:10,610 --> 01:03:07,470
use that power for evil instead of good

1625
01:03:13,640 --> 01:03:10,620
if she has chosen to promote super

1626
01:03:16,310 --> 01:03:13,650
science quackery and and nonsense at

1627
01:03:18,890 --> 01:03:16,320
every chance she gets Jenny McCarthy

1628
01:03:21,710 --> 01:03:18,900
just yeah the secret Jenny McCarthy it's

1629
01:03:23,210 --> 01:03:21,720
all it's all bad foods she's done

1630
01:03:25,700 --> 01:03:23,220
probably more than any under any other

1631
01:03:27,890 --> 01:03:25,710
individual to promote you know one suit

1632
01:03:30,890 --> 01:03:27,900
o science and Tom Cruise as well we

1633
01:03:32,870 --> 01:03:30,900
can't forgive her for that through

1634
01:03:33,680 --> 01:03:32,880
although I do think that you know Tom

1635
01:03:36,350 --> 01:03:33,690
Cruise

1636
01:03:39,140 --> 01:03:36,360
escapades probably hurts an italic

1637
01:03:41,470 --> 01:03:39,150
anything else I mean anyone who thought

1638
01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:41,480
maybe psychology was a little wonky

1639
01:03:48,440 --> 01:03:44,490
after seeing Tom Cruise was probably

1640
01:03:50,480 --> 01:03:48,450
convinced of it removed yeah you're

1641
01:03:53,450 --> 01:03:50,490
probably right okay Steve semi final

1642
01:03:55,820 --> 01:03:53,460
question is a tough one is skeptical

1643
01:03:57,320 --> 01:03:55,830
dirtier words an atheist and what do you

1644
01:04:00,170 --> 01:03:57,330
think will make the concept of being a

1645
01:04:03,020 --> 01:04:00,180
skeptic more socially acceptable uh in

1646
01:04:05,840 --> 01:04:03,030
terms of public perception I think that

1647
01:04:07,220 --> 01:04:05,850
atheists has it far more at least in

1648
01:04:11,020 --> 01:04:07,230
this country of a negative connotation

1649
01:04:13,760 --> 01:04:11,030
than skeptic you can in a lot of

1650
01:04:16,700 --> 01:04:13,770
situations and contexts you can call

1651
01:04:19,000 --> 01:04:16,710
yourself a skeptic and that may provoke

1652
01:04:21,290 --> 01:04:19,010
a positive response in some people a

1653
01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:21,300
confused or sort of questioning response

1654
01:04:26,150 --> 01:04:23,850
and others and you know I think a

1655
01:04:28,220 --> 01:04:26,160
negative response you know if it's

1656
01:04:29,660 --> 01:04:28,230
confused with the word cynic that's sort

1657
01:04:31,520 --> 01:04:29,670
of the biggest ones that we running that

1658
01:04:34,010 --> 01:04:31,530
people confuse skepticism with cynicism

1659
01:04:36,440 --> 01:04:34,020
and then really only among true

1660
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:36,450
believers who have run afoul of the

1661
01:04:41,120 --> 01:04:38,010
skeptical movement do they actually try

1662
01:04:43,330 --> 01:04:41,130
to make skeptic into a bad word but uh

1663
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:43,340
at least in this kind of United States

1664
01:04:51,560 --> 01:04:47,010
you know atheism is is it is definitely

1665
01:04:53,450 --> 01:04:51,570
I mean and I gets thrown around a lot as

1666
01:04:55,940 --> 01:04:53,460
a pejorative as a way of sort of

1667
01:04:58,640 --> 01:04:55,950
branding some you know a bad person it

1668
01:05:00,890 --> 01:04:58,650
probably would be impossible for a an

1669
01:05:02,540 --> 01:05:00,900
open atheist I would say to get lt2

1670
01:05:04,910 --> 01:05:02,550
national any kind of national office in

1671
01:05:07,160 --> 01:05:04,920
this country at least in the environment

1672
01:05:08,630 --> 01:05:07,170
probably even more so more difficult

1673
01:05:12,590 --> 01:05:08,640
than somebody who is openly homosexual

1674
01:05:16,670 --> 01:05:12,600
for example well it's bad it's really

1675
01:05:20,210 --> 01:05:16,680
bad so but you know there are approach

1676
01:05:21,860 --> 01:05:20,220
to skepticism is what we call scientific

1677
01:05:25,490 --> 01:05:21,870
skepticism where about promoting science

1678
01:05:28,520 --> 01:05:25,500
and education and critical thinking we

1679
01:05:32,630 --> 01:05:28,530
don't deal directly with religious faith

1680
01:05:34,640 --> 01:05:32,640
you know we deal with religion as when

1681
01:05:36,290 --> 01:05:34,650
it interferes with science you know and

1682
01:05:38,150 --> 01:05:36,300
when it intrudes upon science which they

1683
01:05:41,120 --> 01:05:38,160
happily do all the time so it's really

1684
01:05:42,740 --> 01:05:41,130
not that much of a limitation but if

1685
01:05:44,690 --> 01:05:42,750
someone says I have a personal faith in

1686
01:05:46,040 --> 01:05:44,700
God not based upon any evidence or logic

1687
01:05:47,269 --> 01:05:46,050
or anything I just reserve it for myself

1688
01:05:48,729 --> 01:05:47,279
I say that congratulate

1689
01:05:51,620 --> 01:05:48,739
good for you hey what can I say about

1690
01:05:53,539 --> 01:05:51,630
there's nothing to say to address that

1691
01:05:55,099 --> 01:05:53,549
it's you now you're a great at best

1692
01:05:57,469 --> 01:05:55,109
you're in the realm of a philosophy

1693
01:05:59,569 --> 01:05:57,479
which I find interesting it's just not

1694
01:06:03,559 --> 01:05:59,579
something you know that that we deal

1695
01:06:05,839 --> 01:06:03,569
with directly and there's a bit of a

1696
01:06:07,459 --> 01:06:05,849
split in the skeptical movement again on

1697
01:06:10,429 --> 01:06:07,469
that issue whether or not we should

1698
01:06:13,130 --> 01:06:10,439
address faith issue directing a pure

1699
01:06:15,499 --> 01:06:13,140
faith issues as if they were any claim

1700
01:06:18,079 --> 01:06:15,509
or do we make this distict between

1701
01:06:21,559 --> 01:06:18,089
science or evidence-based claims and and

1702
01:06:22,909 --> 01:06:21,569
personal faith and we've chosen for a

1703
01:06:24,199 --> 01:06:22,919
variety of reasons mainly because it's

1704
01:06:25,759 --> 01:06:24,209
what we're interested in and it's I

1705
01:06:28,999 --> 01:06:25,769
think we just where our talents lie just

1706
01:06:30,709 --> 01:06:29,009
to focus on the science and yeah right I

1707
01:06:32,419 --> 01:06:30,719
Jack shake right overweight even the

1708
01:06:34,009 --> 01:06:32,429
word religion because that it creates a

1709
01:06:35,899 --> 01:06:34,019
bit of a misconception we actually do

1710
01:06:39,019 --> 01:06:35,909
deal with religion when religion

1711
01:06:40,880 --> 01:06:39,029
intrudes upon science show creationism

1712
01:06:42,739 --> 01:06:40,890
about the most obvious example yeah

1713
01:06:44,209 --> 01:06:42,749
that's a religion based pseudoscience

1714
01:06:46,819 --> 01:06:44,219
will absolutely deal with all of the

1715
01:06:48,859 --> 01:06:46,829
claims and shenanigans of intelligent as

1716
01:06:50,179 --> 01:06:48,869
a bouns and creationists but we don't

1717
01:06:51,919 --> 01:06:50,189
deal with faith because faith by

1718
01:06:53,630 --> 01:06:51,929
definitions outside the rump science as

1719
01:06:55,849 --> 01:06:53,640
long as you understand what it is and

1720
01:06:57,679 --> 01:06:55,859
keep it separate from science so it

1721
01:07:01,039 --> 01:06:57,689
actually puts that into a much much

1722
01:07:02,989 --> 01:07:01,049
smaller box than us you know we can do

1723
01:07:04,640 --> 01:07:02,999
with really anyone who makes any kind of

1724
01:07:06,829 --> 01:07:04,650
claim we're anything we're lot or

1725
01:07:09,380 --> 01:07:06,839
evidence can write out to bear if you

1726
01:07:12,079 --> 01:07:09,390
remove yourself entirely from any sort

1727
01:07:13,640 --> 01:07:12,089
of logical or evidentiary basis and it's

1728
01:07:17,089 --> 01:07:13,650
just a personal statement of faith well

1729
01:07:18,349 --> 01:07:17,099
that's your freedom to believe whatever

1730
01:07:19,909 --> 01:07:18,359
you want we don't really care what

1731
01:07:22,399 --> 01:07:19,919
people believe we want them to

1732
01:07:25,759 --> 01:07:22,409
understand and to think critically but I

1733
01:07:27,709 --> 01:07:25,769
we don't concern ourselves with what

1734
01:07:30,559 --> 01:07:27,719
people believe alright well thank you

1735
01:07:32,390 --> 01:07:30,569
very much for your time Steve and as hey

1736
01:07:33,469 --> 01:07:32,400
it was a lot of fun too ya know it's

1737
01:07:35,029 --> 01:07:33,479
great well we've we've got a little

1738
01:07:37,149 --> 01:07:35,039
present for you which is currently on

1739
01:07:40,249 --> 01:07:37,159
its way probably on a plane right now

1740
01:07:42,499 --> 01:07:40,259
we've sent you the great skeptic CD 2

1741
01:07:45,649 --> 01:07:42,509
which is the Australian skeptics journal

1742
01:07:48,979 --> 01:07:45,659
on DVD searchable sorry searchable CD

1743
01:07:51,019 --> 01:07:48,989
we've also sent you a DVD called the

1744
01:07:54,409 --> 01:07:51,029
rhyme keeper which is 26 original

1745
01:07:58,489 --> 01:07:54,419
Australian poems and Richard Saunders

1746
01:08:00,529 --> 01:07:58,499
let DVD the fold along origami DVD

1747
01:08:01,100 --> 01:08:00,539
excellent well thanks so much for having

1748
01:08:03,590 --> 01:08:01,110
me it was a

1749
01:08:05,450 --> 01:08:03,600
a lot of fun thanks very much Damon we

1750
01:08:08,560 --> 01:08:05,460
can't wait to see you in 2010 in

1751
01:08:10,850 --> 01:08:08,570
Australia finally very exciting we're

1752
01:08:19,580 --> 01:08:10,860
all looking forward to it that will be

1753
01:08:22,340 --> 01:08:19,590
great you're listening to the skeptic

1754
01:08:25,400 --> 01:08:22,350
zone I'm Brian Dunning from sceptile

1755
01:08:28,280 --> 01:08:25,410
calm when I'm not tuned into the skeptic

1756
01:08:30,890 --> 01:08:28,290
zone I'm recording thus kept I'd podcast

1757
01:08:32,710 --> 01:08:30,900
doing what I can to further knowledge by

1758
01:08:35,210 --> 01:08:32,720
blasting away the widespread

1759
01:08:37,970 --> 01:08:35,220
pseudo-sciences that infect popular

1760
01:08:40,130 --> 01:08:37,980
culture I've also compiled a 40 minute

1761
01:08:43,370 --> 01:08:40,140
educational video on critical thinking

1762
01:08:47,090 --> 01:08:43,380
called here be dragons at here be

1763
01:08:50,090 --> 01:08:47,100
dragons movie.com I hope you check those

1764
01:08:55,160 --> 01:08:50,100
out and I hope you enjoy the skeptic

1765
01:08:58,910 --> 01:08:55,170
zone death from the skies these are the

1766
01:09:00,530 --> 01:08:58,920
ways the world will end wow that sounds

1767
01:09:03,140 --> 01:09:00,540
pretty dreadful but it's not it's

1768
01:09:05,570 --> 01:09:03,150
fabulous it's the new book by dr. Phil

1769
01:09:07,970 --> 01:09:05,580
Plait the bad astronomer death from the

1770
01:09:10,220 --> 01:09:07,980
skies a scientific look at the way the

1771
01:09:12,050 --> 01:09:10,230
world will end yeah it still sounds a

1772
01:09:14,030 --> 01:09:12,060
bit the grim doesn't it know but it's a

1773
01:09:15,590 --> 01:09:14,040
fabulous read I'm about halfway through

1774
01:09:17,450 --> 01:09:15,600
it and I want to keep reading it right

1775
01:09:19,700 --> 01:09:17,460
now but I better not as I'm making this

1776
01:09:22,130 --> 01:09:19,710
announcement death from the skies you

1777
01:09:24,410 --> 01:09:22,140
can win a copy of this fabulous book for

1778
01:09:25,970 --> 01:09:24,420
yourself we're looking for a funny or

1779
01:09:28,900 --> 01:09:25,980
interesting caption for one of our

1780
01:09:31,820 --> 01:09:28,910
t-shirts some you do of skepticism

1781
01:09:37,310 --> 01:09:31,830
podcasting something like that send your

1782
01:09:39,560 --> 01:09:37,320
ideas to Kylie at skeptic zone TV and

1783
01:09:41,870 --> 01:09:39,570
the winner will be announced in our show

1784
01:09:45,020 --> 01:09:41,880
in two weeks time it'll be early

1785
01:09:48,080 --> 01:09:45,030
December but if you can't wait run out

1786
01:09:53,810 --> 01:09:48,090
and buy yourself a copy of birth from

1787
01:09:56,900 --> 01:09:53,820
the skies and a new site on the internet

1788
01:09:58,850 --> 01:09:56,910
young Australian skeptics just google

1789
01:10:02,840 --> 01:09:58,860
young Australian skeptics and see a new

1790
01:10:05,330 --> 01:10:02,850
site dedicated to a young Australian

1791
01:10:08,450 --> 01:10:05,340
skeptics with interesting articles blogs

1792
01:10:11,990 --> 01:10:08,460
pogs frogs and all sorts of other things

1793
01:10:14,180 --> 01:10:12,000
young Australian skeptics well worth a

1794
01:10:18,050 --> 01:10:14,190
look especially if you're a young

1795
01:10:23,660 --> 01:10:18,060
young Australian skeptic I think I'll

1796
01:10:31,580 --> 01:10:23,670
stop now join us now for drinking

1797
01:10:33,410 --> 01:10:31,590
skeptically in the think tank Sydney's

1798
01:10:35,390 --> 01:10:33,420
Chinatown and i'm here with Philip

1799
01:10:38,150 --> 01:10:35,400
Peters from the skeptics committee hello

1800
01:10:40,850 --> 01:10:38,160
Philip hi Richard and Richard on up hi

1801
01:10:44,120 --> 01:10:40,860
Rachel hi Ricardo and we've all just

1802
01:10:45,800 --> 01:10:44,130
spent a couple of happy hours or three

1803
01:10:47,510 --> 01:10:45,810
or four actually actually yes at the

1804
01:10:48,860 --> 01:10:47,520
mind-body wallet festival what did you

1805
01:10:51,200 --> 01:10:48,870
think of the vessel of us here Rachel

1806
01:10:53,870 --> 01:10:51,210
well it was the same all voiced a

1807
01:10:56,479 --> 01:10:53,880
different day I'd be a sudden it

1808
01:10:59,120 --> 01:10:56,489
same sort of mismatch of people

1809
01:11:03,020 --> 01:10:59,130
espousing what you can only really say

1810
01:11:07,560 --> 01:11:03,030
is [\h__\h] I guess we had a couple of

1811
01:11:11,459 --> 01:11:09,240
yeah of course you know it's the usual

1812
01:11:14,189 --> 01:11:11,469
suspects again there was life blood

1813
01:11:15,899 --> 01:11:14,199
analysis once more and inherent alisis

1814
01:11:18,450 --> 01:11:15,909
with lots and lots of hair analysis

1815
01:11:20,700 --> 01:11:18,460
which is apparently done using quantum

1816
01:11:23,189 --> 01:11:20,710
physics quantum physics another machine

1817
01:11:25,589 --> 01:11:23,199
that utilizes quantum physics to do my

1818
01:11:28,680 --> 01:11:25,599
hair analysis yes to test for allergies

1819
01:11:32,399 --> 01:11:28,690
to throw yeah I was pretty impressive

1820
01:11:35,790 --> 01:11:32,409
machine wasn't it all right darling yeah

1821
01:11:37,410 --> 01:11:35,800
what did it had it had a dial that would

1822
01:11:40,470 --> 01:11:37,420
move depending on whether you were

1823
01:11:42,810 --> 01:11:40,480
allergic to a compound or not it had a

1824
01:11:45,390 --> 01:11:42,820
and like that we have three red LEDs

1825
01:11:47,520 --> 01:11:45,400
that would blow if you allergic to

1826
01:11:51,000 --> 01:11:47,530
something and over 300 different

1827
01:11:52,680 --> 01:11:51,010
compounds in little vials that could use

1828
01:11:55,620 --> 01:11:52,690
to identify where your allergies lie

1829
01:11:59,610 --> 01:11:55,630
just extraordinary yeah what did you

1830
01:12:02,940 --> 01:11:59,620
think of it good well what was one of

1831
01:12:04,620 --> 01:12:02,950
them was different this year I saw at

1832
01:12:06,690 --> 01:12:04,630
least three vendors see who didn't

1833
01:12:08,370 --> 01:12:06,700
believe anything around them don't just

1834
01:12:12,830 --> 01:12:08,380
say because I will set a guy the kinetic

1835
01:12:15,300 --> 01:12:12,840
art or just food basically yeah yeah so

1836
01:12:19,860 --> 01:12:15,310
there was some beautiful life work and

1837
01:12:22,470 --> 01:12:19,870
then wind catches swirly things yes just

1838
01:12:24,090 --> 01:12:22,480
which is wonderful and close to yes one

1839
01:12:26,820 --> 01:12:24,100
thing I did notice I don't know it

1840
01:12:29,910 --> 01:12:26,830
wasn't such a big thing in May but there

1841
01:12:31,620 --> 01:12:29,920
was a lot of this special water this

1842
01:12:35,010 --> 01:12:31,630
time we were there was a link more than

1843
01:12:39,390 --> 01:12:35,020
there was at least for magic magic water

1844
01:12:43,890 --> 01:12:39,400
one water device work because the water

1845
01:12:46,050 --> 01:12:43,900
was forced through a some sort of magic

1846
01:12:48,540 --> 01:12:46,060
filter with a crystal that's right yes

1847
01:12:50,729 --> 01:12:48,550
and then that broke up the mulch

1848
01:12:52,950 --> 01:12:50,739
rearrange the molecules rearranged

1849
01:12:54,930 --> 01:12:52,960
monetize we have one at free energized

1850
01:12:57,510 --> 01:12:54,940
order and the next person told us that

1851
01:13:02,399 --> 01:12:57,520
they're filtered filtration system used

1852
01:13:05,339 --> 01:13:02,409
magnets which converted far-infrared to

1853
01:13:08,910 --> 01:13:05,349
energize the water no she actually said

1854
01:13:10,589 --> 01:13:08,920
it use magnets and fart in technology to

1855
01:13:12,209 --> 01:13:10,599
re-energize the water that's when I said

1856
01:13:14,910 --> 01:13:12,219
well you're just making this up aren't

1857
01:13:19,960 --> 01:13:14,920
you if you did say that

1858
01:13:23,590 --> 01:13:19,970
yeah go ahead yeah yeah can I please

1859
01:13:28,840 --> 01:13:23,600
have a big dumpling

1860
01:13:28,850 --> 01:13:33,510
the poor trips with black pencil

1861
01:13:33,520 --> 01:13:39,669
and it's just a stir fry vegetables

1862
01:13:45,020 --> 01:13:42,199
ordering for me too yeah do you want a

1863
01:13:46,819 --> 01:13:45,030
hole now yeah we can share two or

1864
01:13:48,830 --> 01:13:46,829
something we could all just dig in well

1865
01:13:52,370 --> 01:13:48,840
because I've ordered I wanted to see

1866
01:13:54,859 --> 01:13:52,380
lots of dumplings ribs which twin tower

1867
01:13:56,540 --> 01:13:54,869
and then that sounds good to me and

1868
01:13:58,020 --> 01:13:56,550
maybe your fried rice but it's how we

1869
01:14:02,399 --> 01:13:58,030
agony

1870
01:14:06,359 --> 01:14:02,409
yep oh yes lovely I used to recording

1871
01:14:09,569 --> 01:14:06,369
yeah now listen is once an hour what

1872
01:14:11,490 --> 01:14:09,579
we're having for dinner yes this car

1873
01:14:13,820 --> 01:14:11,500
like they are still file three four cats

1874
01:14:15,500 --> 01:14:13,830
can be quite space

1875
01:14:17,180 --> 01:14:15,510
anyway see if there are lots of

1876
01:14:20,450 --> 01:14:17,190
different sorts of magical water on and

1877
01:14:23,240 --> 01:14:20,460
I try not to lose my temper I really

1878
01:14:24,500 --> 01:14:23,250
don't but towards the end when the guy

1879
01:14:26,480 --> 01:14:24,510
was saying look at this and I was

1880
01:14:28,460 --> 01:14:26,490
reading about the consciousness of water

1881
01:14:30,620 --> 01:14:28,470
i jus said this is just ridiculous but

1882
01:14:32,780 --> 01:14:30,630
reaches that's based on the the German

1883
01:14:36,840 --> 01:14:32,790
web for food which is leaving sweetie

1884
01:14:42,090 --> 01:14:39,540
I should know I know Jim but that's when

1885
01:14:45,810 --> 01:14:42,100
he because after he left and he actually

1886
01:14:48,870 --> 01:14:45,820
showed me the next page of that book

1887
01:14:51,270 --> 01:14:48,880
yeah where it was talking about oh my

1888
01:14:52,260 --> 01:14:51,280
god I didn't tell you this and it was

1889
01:14:56,460 --> 01:14:52,270
talking about something called the

1890
01:14:58,620 --> 01:14:56,470
Oxford studies where milk that was

1891
01:15:01,680 --> 01:14:58,630
analyzed biochemically and chemically

1892
01:15:04,590 --> 01:15:01,690
before pasteurization showed a different

1893
01:15:06,510 --> 01:15:04,600
profile after pasteurization and this

1894
01:15:09,060 --> 01:15:06,520
allegedly broke down the consciousness

1895
01:15:11,760 --> 01:15:09,070
of the milk and so a calf that was given

1896
01:15:13,080 --> 01:15:11,770
milk that was not pasteurized was fine

1897
01:15:15,450 --> 01:15:13,090
and one that was given look there was

1898
01:15:18,480 --> 01:15:15,460
pasteurized I'd and this was because the

1899
01:15:20,820 --> 01:15:18,490
body could no longer interpret the milk

1900
01:15:22,800 --> 01:15:20,830
and this guy said to me and I felt sorry

1901
01:15:25,650 --> 01:15:22,810
for him I mean he's had really you've

1902
01:15:27,480 --> 01:15:25,660
had cancer and then he recovered but he

1903
01:15:30,150 --> 01:15:27,490
correlated that with his alkaline water

1904
01:15:33,270 --> 01:15:30,160
and he was a nice old guy who lives on a

1905
01:15:35,910 --> 01:15:33,280
farm and grows organic veggies I know I

1906
01:15:38,190 --> 01:15:35,920
know where the point is if some people

1907
01:15:40,710 --> 01:15:38,200
actually believe what ru is saying it's

1908
01:15:43,620 --> 01:15:40,720
not using his wacko method and go off

1909
01:15:45,720 --> 01:15:43,630
their real medicine that is nice and

1910
01:15:51,060 --> 01:15:45,730
deluded as he is he is doing real harm

1911
01:15:54,000 --> 01:15:51,070
has promised a cure potential sir oh

1912
01:15:56,790 --> 01:15:54,010
yeah yeah yeah his talk which was in the

1913
01:16:03,540 --> 01:15:56,800
speaker's corner or whatever was how

1914
01:16:05,100 --> 01:16:03,550
would a computer and curable please did

1915
01:16:07,350 --> 01:16:05,110
you want caffeine free I don't really

1916
01:16:13,000 --> 01:16:07,360
mind you have it without oh yeah yes no

1917
01:16:20,339 --> 01:16:15,279
suddenly there's money everywhere that's

1918
01:16:23,020 --> 01:16:20,349
your trade right goodbye Thank You Emily

1919
01:16:26,470 --> 01:16:23,030
now the next mind-body what festival

1920
01:16:29,140 --> 01:16:26,480
will be in some may I guess in 2009 art

1921
01:16:31,270 --> 01:16:29,150
certainly be here I hope you guys come

1922
01:16:33,100 --> 01:16:31,280
along well yeah well I hope all our

1923
01:16:35,350 --> 01:16:33,110
listeners come along to you come along

1924
01:16:36,839 --> 01:16:35,360
and recognize Richard and make faces at

1925
01:16:40,779 --> 01:16:36,849
him which happened a little bit today

1926
01:16:43,209 --> 01:16:40,789
yeah some someone came up and said mr.

1927
01:16:46,870 --> 01:16:43,219
skeptic which is also thank you which is

1928
01:16:48,490 --> 01:16:46,880
always a new dication they didn't help

1929
01:16:51,399 --> 01:16:48,500
that you were wearing a tan 6 t-shirt

1930
01:16:55,390 --> 01:16:51,409
that says in huge bright yellow letters

1931
01:16:58,509 --> 01:16:55,400
I skeptic and I was wearing piggy

1932
01:17:00,339 --> 01:16:58,519
earrings [\h__\h] this earring yeah we

1933
01:17:02,020 --> 01:17:00,349
still that a little bit we stood out of

1934
01:17:05,040 --> 01:17:02,030
it there were some some positive

1935
01:17:08,790 --> 01:17:05,050
comments really

1936
01:17:11,220 --> 01:17:08,800
yes yes a gang of people spend either

1937
01:17:12,750 --> 01:17:11,230
rips read my t-shirt or recognized who I

1938
01:17:16,080 --> 01:17:12,760
was so that was quite fun I gave them

1939
01:17:19,290 --> 01:17:17,790
yep

1940
01:17:20,790 --> 01:17:19,300
what's a lovely evening here in

1941
01:17:22,169 --> 01:17:20,800
Chinatown so I guess we will look

1942
01:17:26,580 --> 01:17:22,179
forward to our dinner which we just

1943
01:17:47,220 --> 01:17:26,590
ordered cuz we're wait out aren't we

1944
01:17:52,330 --> 01:17:50,260
Stefan I I just can't describe to you

1945
01:17:53,740 --> 01:17:52,340
how much I enjoy doing this show and

1946
01:17:55,120 --> 01:17:53,750
then would think for me is because I

1947
01:17:57,490 --> 01:17:55,130
only sort of do the beginning in the end

1948
01:17:59,020 --> 01:17:57,500
it's just that long wait in between yeah

1949
01:18:00,490 --> 01:17:59,030
cuz I go sit here in the studio while

1950
01:18:02,080 --> 01:18:00,500
you do all these things all around the

1951
01:18:03,850 --> 01:18:02,090
place I just gotta wait and wait wait

1952
01:18:05,500 --> 01:18:03,860
just to do the clothes but it's great to

1953
01:18:06,940 --> 01:18:05,510
be back I'm glad you waited around I was

1954
01:18:09,250 --> 01:18:06,950
a good episode of it was a great episode

1955
01:18:11,290 --> 01:18:09,260
offers Carl what a legend what else

1956
01:18:13,060 --> 01:18:11,300
legend and what big news hey what about

1957
01:18:14,680 --> 01:18:13,070
that big news about the skeptics guide

1958
01:18:17,560 --> 01:18:14,690
to the universe people coming out here

1959
01:18:19,420 --> 01:18:17,570
are me here november 2010 all you

1960
01:18:21,790 --> 01:18:19,430
listeners out there look out I mean it

1961
01:18:24,040 --> 01:18:21,800
is it's kind of like the zone is is like

1962
01:18:25,840 --> 01:18:24,050
a vortex just sort of pulling skeptics

1963
01:18:28,150 --> 01:18:25,850
in from the entire galaxy every wish to

1964
01:18:31,360 --> 01:18:28,160
Sydney the skeptic black hole zone yeah

1965
01:18:34,000 --> 01:18:31,370
skeptical takes over knowledge on

1966
01:18:36,310 --> 01:18:34,010
skepticism ah yes now but dr. Carl is

1967
01:18:38,260 --> 01:18:36,320
he's a religion as far as a popularized

1968
01:18:39,970 --> 01:18:38,270
in science I think he's done a great job

1969
01:18:41,830 --> 01:18:39,980
for that there's a whole generation of

1970
01:18:44,560 --> 01:18:41,840
kids in Australia that have been raised

1971
01:18:46,690 --> 01:18:44,570
because he's been a guest on this sort

1972
01:18:49,000 --> 01:18:46,700
of cool radio station for so long triple

1973
01:18:50,830 --> 01:18:49,010
j yeah there's a whole generation of

1974
01:18:52,840 --> 01:18:50,840
kids that have kind of been inculcated

1975
01:18:55,030 --> 01:18:52,850
yet with this with such scientific

1976
01:18:56,350 --> 01:18:55,040
concepts and things I think it's a good

1977
01:18:58,090 --> 01:18:56,360
thing he's a top bloke and I'm sure

1978
01:19:00,790 --> 01:18:58,100
we'll have him as a guest again you know

1979
01:19:02,680 --> 01:19:00,800
next our next episode in two weeks time

1980
01:19:05,110 --> 01:19:02,690
we're going to very special guest indeed

1981
01:19:07,870 --> 01:19:05,120
a very famous researcher into the

1982
01:19:09,940 --> 01:19:07,880
paranormal investigator Ben Redford from

1983
01:19:11,800 --> 01:19:09,950
the United States been read for these

1984
01:19:13,480 --> 01:19:11,810
very famous but I haven't quite heard of

1985
01:19:15,340 --> 01:19:13,490
him bloodied it was very famous of the

1986
01:19:17,020 --> 01:19:15,350
United States he's a sort of guy who'll

1987
01:19:19,150 --> 01:19:17,030
go out in a wet suit and look for

1988
01:19:21,160 --> 01:19:19,160
monsters and like something oh also that

1989
01:19:23,620 --> 01:19:21,170
dedicated he's out there goes out and

1990
01:19:25,450 --> 01:19:23,630
looks at haunted houses and does real on

1991
01:19:26,740 --> 01:19:25,460
the spot investigate actually that's a

1992
01:19:28,990 --> 01:19:26,750
bit like you could you like to give

1993
01:19:31,180 --> 01:19:29,000
Nadal my house is amazing yeah they

1994
01:19:33,400 --> 01:19:31,190
never been scared never been bumped in

1995
01:19:35,210 --> 01:19:33,410
the night what can I say no

1996
01:19:36,740 --> 01:19:35,220
well that's going to be great so that's

1997
01:19:39,020 --> 01:19:36,750
next week skeptics are number seven

1998
01:19:41,360 --> 01:19:39,030
number seven in two weeks time in fact

1999
01:19:43,580 --> 01:19:41,370
and and lots of other things that are so

2000
01:19:45,470 --> 01:19:43,590
good I can't even tell you about but and

2001
01:19:47,330 --> 01:19:45,480
once again can I please thank you on

2002
01:19:49,250 --> 01:19:47,340
behalf of the skeptic zone and all the

2003
01:19:51,440 --> 01:19:49,260
team here for all the listeners that

2004
01:19:53,900 --> 01:19:51,450
have been dead devotedly downloading the

2005
01:19:55,220 --> 01:19:53,910
podcast each time and giving us lots of

2006
01:19:56,960 --> 01:19:55,230
good feedback and thank you to the

2007
01:19:58,730 --> 01:19:56,970
listeners to thank you for the feedback

2008
01:20:00,830 --> 01:19:58,740
it's in all the feedback we're getting

2009
01:20:02,540 --> 01:20:00,840
from Australians writing and saying we

2010
01:20:04,430 --> 01:20:02,550
really don't love the show because it's

2011
01:20:06,710 --> 01:20:04,440
Australian try the other skeptical

2012
01:20:08,570 --> 01:20:06,720
podcast they love to yeah great but

2013
01:20:10,640 --> 01:20:08,580
they're American find it we're the only

2014
01:20:12,410 --> 01:20:10,650
real australian line yeah well you know

2015
01:20:14,300 --> 01:20:12,420
it's a big hemisphere down here with a

2016
01:20:16,190 --> 01:20:14,310
lot lot to cover and you'll be doing our

2017
01:20:17,600 --> 01:20:16,200
bit we're doing a bit well I'll see you

2018
01:20:19,370 --> 01:20:17,610
in a couple of weeks Stefan we can do a

2019
01:20:22,040 --> 01:20:19,380
bit all over looking forward to it and

2020
01:20:27,350 --> 01:20:22,050
guess what he comes a theme song oh wait

2021
01:20:31,640 --> 01:20:27,360
for it you've been listening to the

2022
01:20:34,910 --> 01:20:31,650
skeptic zone visit her website at wwc a

2023
01:20:49,830 --> 01:20:34,920
petting zoo TV for comments contacts and